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Can Symmetry Guarantee Equivalence or Equality?

 
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chandru_iyer
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Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 1
Location: New Delhi, India

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:04 am    Post subject: Can Symmetry Guarantee Equivalence or Equality? Reply with quote

Let us consider two clocks, clock A and clock B. Let us say that A is running correctly, whereas clock B runs fast and slow. For one second clock B runs fast, that is it runs up two seconds; then for the next two seconds clock B runs slow and runs only one second. In a total of three seconds both the clocks run up three seconds.

A mapping of the times shown by the two clocks is given as below.

Sl No Clock A (seconds) Clock B (Seconds)
1 0 0

2 1.0 2.0

3 3.0 3.0

4 4.0 5.0

5 6.0 6.0


With the above data, clock A is convinced that clock B is running incorrectly.

Now, in the above table, the two clocks are synchronized at sl no 1, 3, 5. Let us assume we wish to synchronize the clocks at sl no 2. In order to do this we subtract 1 from all readings of clock A and 2 from all readings of clock B. The resultant table is as below.


Sl No Clock A (seconds) Clock B (Seconds)
1 -1 -2

2 0.0 0.0

3 2.0 1.0

4 3.0 3.0

5 5.0 4.0

6 6.0 6.0


Now we interchange the columns “Clock A” and “Clock B”

Sl No New Sl No Clock B (Seconds) Clock A (seconds)
1 0 -2 -1

2 1 0.0 0.0

3 2 1.0 2.0

4 3 3.0 3.0

5 4 4.0 5.0

6 5 6.0 6.0

Now, we see that the first mapping of clock A to clock B is identical to that of the second mapping seen from clock B to clock A.

Can we say both these clocks are equivalent?

-Chandru website -> www.easyrelativity.com


Last edited by chandru_iyer on Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:07 am; edited 2 times in total
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Eugene Shubert
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Joined: 06 Apr 2002
Posts: 814
Location: Richardson Texas

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: Can Symmetry Guarantee Equivalence or Equality? Reply with quote

chandru_iyer wrote:
Let us consider two clocks, clock A and clock B. Let us say that A is running correctly, whereas clock B runs fast and slow.

Can we say both these clocks are equivalent?

Dear Chandru,

The answer is obviously no.

You do ask an essential question: "Can Symmetry Guarantee Equivalence or Equality?" I believe that your mirror analogy on your web page states your criticism of special relativity more persuasively:

Chandru Iyer wrote:
The equations of transformation of points of object to points of image are symmetric with the inverse operation in the case of the reflecting mirror. But the object and image, as we all know, are not equivalent.

The contention of this paper is to emphasize that a mathematical symmetry or equivalence of a transformation with its inverse does not necessarily ensure the equivalence of the two entities involved.

I appreciate your insightful objection to the very lopsided appearance of SR. Did you know that there is a simple derivation of special relativity that does not invoke lopsided sounding physics principles or any requirement of group symmetry? See this derivation of the Lorentz transformation but please skip section 3:

http://www.everythingimportant.org/relativity/special.pdf
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