A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 8:58 pm Post subject: Fortitude Travesser's gospel of perfect sinlessness
The fourteenth chapter of Revelation is a chapter of the deepest interest. This scripture will soon be understood in all its bearings, and the messages given to John the revelator will be repeated with distinct utterance. RH 10-13-04.
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel (the power to overcome sin) to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment (of the living) is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Revelation 14:6-7 (emphasis supplied).
The only people who can truly keep the Sabbath are those who are free from sin. Everyone else is only keeping Saturday, which is no different than keeping Sunday. Paul warned that there would be those who would have a form of godliness (staunch adherence to doctrine), but would deny the power thereof. Some say, "someday" I'll overcome sin. Well, "someday" has come!
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. Revelation 14:8; 17:18.
The woman of Rev. 17 is fallen, professing Christianity today. She rides on the back of the beast with seven heads and ten horns. This beast is the United States after it has made the image to the first beast of Rev. 13 (the papacy). Together they (the whore and the beast) spread their abomination of desolation throughout the world; and those countries who don't submit (enter their "rest") are targeted, like Iraq and Serbia so far. Those who constitute the whore influence the beast with their support (i.e. flag waving), and paying taxes.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead (support), or in his hand (paying taxes), the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no (Sabbath) rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they (www.travesser.com) that keep the commandments of God (free from sin), and the faith of Jesus (the same faith Jesus had regarding his relationship with the Father). Revelation 14:9-12 (emphasis supplied).
To receive this mark means to come to the same decision as the beast has done, and to advocate the same ideas, in direct opposition to the Word of God. 7BC 979.
What are some of the ideas that the beast has advocated recently? Let's see, "You are 100% for us or 100% against us" (imposed worhsip), "People suspected of supporting terrorists will have their assets seized" (can't buy or sell), "Countries suspected of having weapons of mass destruction and supporting terrorists need to overthrown" (be part of our worldwide despotic state [like the papacy] or die), "God told me to strike at Saddam" (I thought God said to love your enemies). Of course, SDAs will sit back and say that it's OK to support such Satanic actions just as long as they're not forced to go to church on Sunday. This spirit is a fulfillment of Paul's warning.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed (the fallen, self-centered nature of humanity that thinks it can be saved by belonging to the "true church" and doing the best it can), whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth (i.e. Whosoever is born of God doth not Commit sin. I John 3:9), that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. II Thessalonians 2:8-12 (emphasis supplied).
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die (to their self) in the Lord from henceforth (For he that is dead is freed from sin. Romans 6:7): Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours (enter into the Sabbath); and their works do follow them. And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud [one] sat like unto the Son of man (http://michael.travesser.com), having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe (the wheat and tares have been distinguished). And he that sat on the cloud (Michael) thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. Revelation 14:13-16 (emphasis supplied).
These shall make war with the Lamb (HERE!), and the Lamb (Michael) shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him (the 144,000) [are] called, and chosen, and faithful. Revelation 17:14 (emphasis supplied).
1+1=2. In order for the people who have the mark of the beast to be tormented in the presence of the Lamb, and for the wicked to make war with the Lamb, the Lamb must be present! He is, and the people are being judged on how they accept Him.
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. II Thessalonians 1:10.
Messiah has appeared in His saints as lightning the from east even unto the west. Every eye does and will see Him; and His saints will rise!
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. Revelation 21:7. AMEN! Thank You Father. _________________ Isaiah 26:20-21
I love your first quote. It’s from Ellen G. White, right? Doesn’t that true messenger say elsewhere that those who claim to be without sin are self-deceived?
EGW wrote:
It is evident that where a claim to sinlessness is made, there the law of God has not been written in the heart; for the commandments of God are exceeding broad, and are discerners of the thoughts and intents of the heart. The Signs of the Times, April 30, 1896.
Doesn’t the Bible say the exact same thing?
John wrote:
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8
First of all, I'm not Wayne. My given name is Timothy as I stated in my profile on this forum. I have a neighbor whose given name is Wayne. His name is now Michael. His profile can be read at http://michael.travesser.com
Second of all, I never said that I was without sin. I was full of sin before I became a Christian. What I did say is that Christians don't sin.
Christ came to make us "partakers of the divine nature," and His life declares that humanity, combined with divinity, does not commit sin. MH180.
Once again 1+1=2. _________________ Isaiah 26:20-21
Let me get this straight. You used to sin but now that the “Messiah has appeared in His saints as lightning the from east even unto the west” you don’t sin. You have been cleansed from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9) for past sins and therefore you, because you don’t sin now, are now without sin. Why isn’t that right?
Correction received: Fortitude Travesser is not Wayne Travesser. My apologies for thinking that you are the anointed one. But there is some connection isn’t there? Let me guess. You aren’t related to your neighbor Wayne but you use his last name (which is made up) to suggest that you both belong to the same collective consciousness?
I can see that we have different understandings as to what a Christian is. As inspiration says, Christians don't sin.
And yes, there is a connection between Michael and I. We share the same last name because the word "travesser" means: doggedly determined to cross over. That describes what He and I are experiencing, we are being translated from earth to heaven. These things, especially what a Christian is, are made very clear on the Church's website (www.travesser.com).
By the way, Father gave Him the name Travesser, it wasn't made up. _________________ Isaiah 26:20-21
First of all, I'm not Wayne. My given name is Timothy as I stated in my profile on this forum. I have a neighbor whose given name is Wayne. His name is now Michael. His profile can be read at http://michael.travesser.com
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:24 pm Post subject: 3 angel's messages repeated
Hello, I am new here. I was just browsing around and found the web site for the Micheal Traverser family. It looked good at first then as I began to read warning signal began to go off. I thought I have seen this before with other cults, it seems like they always and I mean always deny the deity of Jesus Christ. So I thought maybe I would send this grounp an e-mail and nope! not place to send e-mails! I have seen this before too with other cult groups. I wonder what they have to hide? If they have the truth as they claim to have why hide behind a firewall? Be open let you e-mail be know. I think cults ingeneral are afraid of the truth and afraid their congregation might hear the truth and be set free.
I used to be in a cult once and I know much about them, ever heard of The Way Ministry? Yeah I was there, I have also been around Jehovah Witnesses, Mormens, etc. This cult is no different....any way God Bless all you Christians out there stand up for the Truth
Hi, Fortitude
DO YOU REMEMBER ME. I'm the guy you don't have an answer for as to why you believe Wayne is the Messiah. Did Wayne tell you not to talk to me anymore? Are you allowed to think for yourself?
Larry you're right, Wayne is a lost soul. He has the guts to proclaim himself as the messiah, but can not back up such a claim with any facts. I have a question for Fortitude. Will you drink Koolade laced with cyanide if your Messiah tells you too? Will you block yourself in a ranch away from A.T.F. agents if your Messiah tells you too?
BEWARE REMEMBER JIM JONES AND DAVID KORESH TO NAME A FEW. We are Living in the last days. The spirit of the Antichrist is stong . Do not allow yourself to be decieved by mere mortals. Remember God gave us his word to check the words of men among other things. If it doesn't line up with the word of God don't believe it.
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:04 am Post subject: Another Perspective
Hi Eugene,
Let's take your reasoning a step further, and examine your offered verses and some others as well...
EGW wrote:
It is evident that where a claim to sinlessness is made, there the law of God has not been written in the heart; for the commandments of God are exceeding broad, and are discerners of the thoughts and intents of the heart. The Signs of the Times, April 30, 1896.
John wrote:
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8
Romans wrote:
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 6:2
Romans wrote:
For he that is dead is freed from sin. 6:7
Romans wrote:
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 6:11
but if I reckon myself dead to sin, thus saying that I am without sin, now I am contradicting scripture by your reasoning, am I not?
Romans wrote:
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 6:18
Surely this is a contradiction of your reasoning. Here Paul is blatantly referring to the point of time that his audience was made free from sin, or sin-less. If it does not mean sin-less, what does free from sin mean?
Romans wrote:
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 6:22
Here again he is referring to being made free from sin, or sin less. Perhaps I misunderstand what it is to be made free from sin?
1 Corinthians wrote:
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. 15:34
Here he is telling people to stop sinning, which if I'm understanding correctly, Christians do not think is possible, and if it is possible, by your reasoning, the instant you become aware of it, you have contradicted the bible, and so must be a liar.
Please, correct me if I am wrong. _________________ Forgive, that's what Jesus would do.
What makes a websites information "helpful"? Because it advances a viewpoint we've chosen to have? _________________ Forgive, that's what Jesus would do.
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:27 am Post subject: Re: 3 angel's messages repeated
lnlake wrote:
Hello, I am new here. I was just browsing around and founf the web site for the Micheal Traverser family. It looked good at first then as I becuase to read warning signal bagan to go off. I thought I have seen this before with other cults, it seems like they always and I mean always deny the deity of Jesus Christ. So I thought maybe I would send this grounp an e-mail and nope! not place to send e-mails! I have seen this before too with other cult groups. I wonder what they have to hide? If they have the truth as they claim to have why hide behind a firewall? Be open let you e-mail be know. I think cults ingeneral are afraid of the truth and afraid their congregation might hear the truth and be set free.
I used to be in a cult once and I know much about them, ever heard of The Way Ministry? Yeah I was there, I have also been arou Jehovah Wintness, Mormens, etc. This cult is no different....any way God Bless all you Christians out there stand up for the Truth
Larry
Larry,
I had no trouble sending email to ask questions. You have to register for their site, which is common. In fact, friend, this very site does not provide public email contact info, until you've registered with it and logged in. This is a very common practice for websites as it provides, among other things, protection from SPAM spiders, which are programs that SPAMMERS run to automate the collection of email addresses to sell to other SPAMMERs. If you go there, register, you can send email to other members, including the much maligned Michael.
Christians don't stand up for the Truth, any more than Muslims do. All I heard from Christians in this country during the unprovoked assault on Iraq was that we had to support our troops. No weapons of Mass destruction found, no ties to 9/11, but yet we still have to support our troops as they engage in an unprovoked over throw of a foreign power? That is the Truth? That is what Jesus would do? That's but one of the most painfully obvious examples too. _________________ Forgive, that's what Jesus would do.
Hello all you travessers out there in the N.M. desert,
I know you and some of you know me a little. There are several things about Michael Travesser that bother me. The main one is that he took two married women to be his wives. That is, they were married before being called to marry Michael, at which point as I understand it their husbands gave them permission to leave. I suppose that would be a writ of divorcement. Of course, you might also say that they were never married in the first place because they disagreed, or whatever. So you could say that there was no problem, they were never married in the first place. This would get around all the scriptures against divorce, marrying a divorced woman, adultery, whatever. Or, you could simply do as Michael Travesser has done: hold up the Bible and say "this is no longer the authority--I am the authority". Then, since you are God, or at least His messenger, anything goes because God makes the rules. This post is more for others at this site than Travessers. Travessers are Rocks. Or Mules. No turning back, way too much to lose.
By the way, I should say this: Fortitude, you are absolutely right when you claim that only those who do not willingly sin enter the gates of heaven. That is Biblical and only logical. Why sin if God is your greatest love? And, even before Wayne Bent claimed Messiahhood, the people in LOR were the most sin-free and devoted-to-God people I have ever met. I would have to say that some of them seemed to me to be free of sinning. However, you are wrong if you believe that there is no hope for sinners today. Anyone at any time can choose to stop sinning, even tho it might be unlikely. But-- as for having "gone out into the world to reach men", come on, please get real, practically NO ONE has heard of you or your group. Even the Winds did not reach but a miniscule fraction of a percent of the people with computers, and most people in the world don't even have a telephone! Don't hide under a bushel.
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