Fortitude Travesser's gospel of perfect sinlessness

moigboi · fanatical cultist Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 21

The spirit of revelation, the Holy Spirit, was given (we are told) after Jesus was crucified.
If a man or woman has received this spirit, then the guide is given and a "Michael" becomes pointless. No one needs or wants two guides.
I personally believe that the people of Wayne's church had never received that spirit, and were searching endlessly through scripture and word to find a way. They got pretty desperate. Wayne gave them what they wanted.
Why even write? Because the wrong guide will destroy. I know a true guide was sent by Jesus. Those who seek with all their heart will receive.
Jesus was not a liar. What He gave and sent was enough. To say otherwise is murder.
I know what I am about to say next is harsh, but then I can testify, from experience, that so are many people in this church: Ask some of the children of the women that Wayne re-married what they think of their new Messiah.
Come on people, get REAL. Is Wayne necessary for your salvation? Is what Jesus gave just NOT ENOUGH?
WELL?

hanifa · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 8:39 am Post subject: let the little children come

Ask the children of Jesus (the disciples) who are viewing the crucifixion, what they think of their new Messiah.

Ask them the same question a few months later.

By their fruit, ye shall know them.

In this "cult", there is no drug abuse, no alcoholism, no spousal abuse, no flaring tempers, no violence, no debt........none of the ills plaguing the society that has found fault with them.

Jesus made the way for man to return to Father. This same Jesus has returned to ensure it for those who would.

It is this same Jesus who lives and dwells among His people and in them, as it is written.

Dzien Dobry · Seventh-day Adventist Joined: 26 May 2002 Posts: 71

Solomon · babble buster Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 28

Adam wrote:

“How did Abram (Abraham as he liked to call himself) demonstrate this act of righteousness? It was by obeying the command of God to his heart. It was to go out on a hill and do just what the pagans had been doing for ages. It was to go and murder his most cherished son on a cold stone altar. Yes, in reality that child was murdered, for the knife was coming down in full force, and was only stopped by the angel of mercy.”

I had trouble with this sixth commandment because people kept telling that it meant if someone came in to destroy my family I had to turn the other cheek and let them do it. This is not something I could have or would have done. I would try to stop them, but it seemed to do so would be going against God’s commandment. So I did a word search of the scripture, putting line upon line until I began to see that to kill someone and to murder some one is two different things. The commandment does not say, “Thou shalt not kill”, it says, “Thou shalt not murder.”

Abraham could no more be accused of murder as God cannot be accused of murder. To murder someone takes a malicious intent. There was no malicious intent in Abraham’s heart toward his son. He was carrying out the will of God which did not contradict the commandment, “Thou shalt not murder.” It is only an contradiction if one doesn’t look at it through the eyes of God.

Veridium wrote:

“For me, I have been called to do things as contrary to what the scriptures literally say. For one big thing, I had to dishonor my mother and father. I had to do it, else, I would not escape the web of lies that they had built their lives on. It was righteousness that I did so and now today, my mom agrees. It opened her eyes. At the time I did it, I did not want to. I was scared of the commandment "honor thy father and they mother", but I was obediant to the Spirit of Truth, and not to the letter of the law (for the law is powerless to save), and the result has been that I am freed from the cycles of violence, lies, perversion, and mind games that defined my family for at least 2 generations. And not just me, but my mom is being freed also.”

Veridium, I do not see how you can say that you broke the fifth commandment that says to honor you Father and Mother. Was it because you broke what your parent thought it should look like? If so, know now we are to keep the commandments according to how God see we are to keep them; not people views of it. If what you did was the best thing to do in that situation, calling it a righteous thing that you had done, then you have kept the commandment concerning honoring your parents perfectly.

“Inspiration is not dictation. People continue to read more into this than what it says. If this means that the scripture is perfect because it was inspired by God, then what of the contradictions in the Bible?”

I find no contradiction in the Bible. The contradictions are in the minds of the people who read it. Take Peter’s vision of the sheet and the animals upon it. God was not telling Peter to eat spiders, snakes, and pigs:

Act 10:9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
Act 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice [spake] unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven…..

Act 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
Act 10:20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
Act 10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what [is] the cause wherefore ye are come?
Act 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee….

Act 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped [him].
Act 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
Act 10:27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

The vision that Peter had did not contradict the scriptures of clean and unclean meats because the vision was not about that. The vision was telling Peter that God was not a respecter of persons. That all men were acceptable to Him.

People see contradictions is scriptures because they do not read them in the right light. I also believe that one should follow the Spirit of God, but when the spirit, one is following, begins to go against the scriptures handed down to us by the Spirit, we should began to seriously consider what spirit are we following. For it is written:

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

Zec 7:11 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts [as] an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.

Jer 6:10 To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? behold, their ear [is] uncircumcised, and they cannot hearken: behold, the word of the LORD is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it.

And the Word of God as you called Jesus said:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

“And the Jews were trusting their scriptures when Jesus came, and used those scriptures to disbelieve him.”

But did not Jesus show them their error concerning the scriptures. He show them over and over how they misused the scriptures. Yet no one has shown me how I am misusing them. I am only accused of doing so. Stop my mouth if you can as Jesus stopped the mouths of the Pharisees. Show me where I am in error. As of yet no one has. Also, it is an error to say they had no bible back then, because what we call the old Testament was their bible. Jesus and the Disciples used it continuously to prove their points concerning the Gospel. We need the scriptures as a measuring stick concerning the actions of others and ourselves, because too many people have said they were following the Spirit of God when they were not. David Koresh said he was Messiah. Was he? Jim Jones said he was God. Was he? The people who followed them said the same things. Were they right? A while back I found two more people on the internet claiming to be “the” Michael besides Wayne. Which one is right? And all claimed Divine Revelation of the Spirit of God. Is it or was it true? We can see the results of their actions. There have been hundreds and thousands who have said they were following the Spirit of God , and most if not all of them, have either changed the Scriptures, or picked out a few convenient ones, or thrown them out completely just to be found in the end they were not following God. I am not saying one should live according to the letter of the law. What I am saying is, that when one is born of the Spirit, that Spirit gives life and meaning to the scripture. It never throws them out. If one hears a spirit within telling them to throw out the Bible then chances are, you are listening to a spirit other than God’s.
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Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

Solomon · babble buster Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 28

In this "cult", there is no drug abuse, no alcoholism, no spousal abuse, no flaring tempers, no violence, no debt........none of the ills plaguing the society that has found fault with them.

Hanifa, you should ask the teenaged son of one of the women who had sex with Wayne what he thinks about the whole thing. Ask him if his family was not “abused”.
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Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

moigboi · fanatical cultist Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 21

....asked by my son after discussing this: "Are we lost because we never met Jesus in person?" If not, why not?
(and by "in person" he meant right there living and standing in front of you).

Adam · fanatical cultist Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 13

Tim,

Ask the prodigal son what he thinks of his father, just before grabs his inheritance and slams the door on his way to the big city?

All of your scriptures that you quote prove only one thing, that you have the ability to read.

Exodus 20:13 reads as follows in the majority of the versions of the bible - “Thou shalt not kill”.
The meaning of the word “kill” from the Strongs Concordance = to dash in pieces, i.e. kill (a human being), espec. to murder;- put to death, kill.

The word “kill” from the dictionary = to put to death; cause the death of; slay;

The word “murder” from the dictionary = the unlawful killing of one human being by another, especially when it is intentional.

Is there any point in arguing with the devil (one who has a gripe against God) ? Is there any point in attempting to prove to him that God is fair? After thousands of years of listening to Lucifer's complaints, do you think that anyone could convince him (or his imps) that God has done nothing wrong?

That is what it is like to watch you make your boastful proclamations. Jesus could not say anything to turn the hard hearts of the Jews into believing Him to be the son of God. Jesus often put them in a hard strait, showing them that they were hypocrites, but they always had more questions.

Why do you hide behind your screen making insinuations about abused families? Are you a coward that must promote these erroneous ideas throughout the whole internet with nothing but your own brooding mind to back it up.

Stand up and be a man. Call the Wives for yourself. Call the husbands and ask them about their love for the Messiah or find out if they are just deluded dunces. Call the children (not just the prodigal) for yourself. I just did. None of their answers back up your "abuse" claim.

Why must your life be one big complaint of unfairness in the ranks of heaven?

Adam

hanifa · Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:19 am Post subject: let the little children come

In the end, at this time and because it is the end, much Light is given. Just like the rain and the sunshine, it falls upon all.

Those who cherish the Light are transformed by it, changed in a moment as the lightning flashes in their soul. To these gives He power to become the Son of God.

There are those who see it but will not step into it. They receive great power (the ability to argue their point) but they have no sweet love, joy and peace.

Solomon · babble buster Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 28

“Is there any point in arguing with the devil (one who has a gripe against God) ? Is there any point in attempting to prove to him that God is fair? After thousands of years of listening to Lucifer's complaints, do you think that anyone could convince him (or his imps) that God has done nothing wrong?”

I have been saying all along that God has done nothing wrong? It is your Wayne who has insinuated that God is a murderer and a thief.

“Why do you hide behind your screen making insinuations about abused families? Are you a coward that must promote these erroneous ideas throughout the whole internet with nothing but your own brooding mind to back it up.”

I have given scripture after scripture to back up what I have seen to be the truth concerning your new found messiah. I’ve used the very words of Jesus Christ. I have given my own personal experiences there with Wayne as evidence. I have ask questions that should have been easy for a true Christian to answer, but instead of answers I get the Fifth amendment thrown at me.

“Stand up and be a man. Call the Wives for yourself.”

I tried to talk to one of the “the wives” right here but she would not. All she did instead is call me a devil just like you are doing now. I have talked to Debbie’s son but I will not share with you what he said lest you use it against him. Besides, if the scriptures I have given you (which are not my words but the Lord’s) doesn’t touch you, what more could one say or do. Everyone here has been given more that enough to make intelligent decisions concerning this new messiah you are proclaiming. I have said enough. The whole thing is starting to grieve me. I have no desire to talk to people whose only answers to my questions is to accuse me of evil that I am not doing. I got enough of that while I was in the church.
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Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

Mesha · fanatical cultist Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 1

You refer to being "made free." If whatever it is you believe in, what you have now, could make you free it would have. But it cannot. You could not find it here, but you most assuredly will not find it where you are. And I believe, deep down in your heart, you know that. You just wish it weren't true.

Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:34 ...the Son [Michael] abideth ever. 36 If the Son [Michael] therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Joh 14:6 Michael saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

My heart's desire is for your soul to know and love the Father. You've been laboring a long time. Oh how Father would love to gather you up in His arms of love, hold and caress you on His mighty breast, wipe your brow, sing to you and give you rest from your torments, your internal tormentors. But you hold Him at arm's length, you won't let Him near you. How it must break His Father heart. Has your heart become so bitter, so hardened that it is too late for you to turn from your present course?

Some years ago, you were in a meeting. And in that meeting you were pronounced a "king" along with several others. During that meeting you spoke to someone and said, "We want your heart." And so now the Father says to you, "I want your heart."

Mt 20:16 ...many be called, but few chosen. [You were called, but not forced or coerced. You were free to choose.]

Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. [...and few there be that will go there - to that cross.]

You were privileged, above millions of souls on this planet. You were called, chosen, drawn by the Father Himself to partake of this lavish wedding feast He prepared for His Son. You show up without the wedding garment on, friend. Why?

Mesha

Light Fox · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:42 am Post subject: Travesser Family

Hello :)

An appeal / essay has recently been completed by one of our (CSDA) evangelists regarding the Travesser controversy, and the claims of Mr. Bent and his followers.

http://creation-7th-day-adventist-church.org/passion_rebuttal.html

As always, comments and questions are welcome, and any errors contained therein are encouraged to be pointed out from the scriptures.

Yah bless
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- Lucan "Luke" Chartier

Fortitude Travesser · Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:08 am Post subject:

Light Fox,

I have read your "evangelist's" appeal and I have a response that I will post here and e-mail to David considering that I am a person he quoted without ever e-mailing me to discuss these things first. I am curious if he will publish this response unedited on your site.

The following quotes are from the appeal followed by my responses.

moigboi · fanatical cultist Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 21

Dear Fortitude,
There is a lot of condemnation to wade through here, it gets confusing. Would you please explain to me the difference, if there is one, between what you believe and the belief that Jesus was simply a man possessed of the "Christ Spirit", who died, and then released that spirit into the universe to be called upon and given to anyone who really asks for it in sincerity? I am wondering if you believe that your messiah is necessary to see in person for salvation, or if rather you believe that the Christ spirit is everywhere as spirit, and enough by itself. I have asked this before, but if there was a reply I can't find it. Incidentally I visited the motorhome of Dale B. some time ago (and wish I hadn't because I am not sure about the effects of certain U dusts on my lungs) and at that time suggested to him that the Bible was true overall, that is the spirit of Christ shines thru, but that many details were questionable and that the blind belief in infallability of every detail led to grave error and confusion. That idea was really unwelcome then. I wonder if it is now. Finally, for me the most amazing thing of all is that Tim's (ex?)wife believes as she does; her letter was powerful and an incredible shift of viewpoint to me.
Really hoping one of you will answer these questions. ltz

Matthew · babble buster Joined: 03 Apr 2004 Posts: 22