A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: The People of Travesser
There is a group of people in New Mexico that you may have heard of. I would like to re-open discussion about them, those who live with Michael Travesser, formerly Wayne Bent.
I have been studying Scripture, and listening to the Holy Spirit a lot, and find that the idea that we can have the spirit of Messiah, that is, become so filled with His spirit that we sin no more since we die to ourselves, is Truth. And if it is Truth, why do people get so upset when one says "I am the way, the Truth, and the Light"? I see that people give lip service to the idea of becoming like Christ, but if anyone goes so far to claim that they have actually done it then they meet with the same treatment that Jesus got: rejection. And hatred.
I would like to open discussion on this, and welcome all.
Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 9:50 pm Post subject: What is the doctrine of the consummation?
moigboi wrote:
Why do people get so upset when one says "I am the way, the Truth, and the Light"?
Maybe because the persons who make this claim are revealing the frightening darkness and ignorance that controls them and the extreme degree that they contradict the Bible. Are you still unwilling to answer direct questions? Evading the truth is an offense to the Spirit. Everythingimportant.org is for relevant dialogue and honesty, not propaganda. Please explain Travesser's doctrine of the consummation. Is it true that it involves sex in some way, as understood by most humans?
Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:17 pm Post subject: reply
You are confused. I am not one who evaded the truth on this site.
Saying "I am the way, truth and light" does not mean you are in darkness I hope. Maybe.... But how do you know? Maybe is not good enough.
I am very willing to answer anything if I know the answer. But be aware I am not an "official" member of that group. I do not understand a lot about them. The reason I am interested is very simple. I have met many of them, and the group contained some of the most dedicated seekers after God I have ever met in my life. They were and are totally sincere, with no hidden agendas, nothing that they put before God, not even their families or children if they were in the way somehow, as the Jesus said (He who loves family, etc etc more than me..." I am sure you know the verses). I should know, I took in one of the wayward children for one family because the child was not allowed in the group. At first I raged against them for doing such a thing. THEN, when I saw what I was dealing with, I understood. Why am I so interested in what sems to be a nut cult? Simple. The people have true integrity, and are seeking God above ALL else. ALL else. Can you say that? Maybe. But I know from long observation that practically no one I have met can.
As I understand it, the consummation was indeed a marriage, and marriages involve sex.
As for going against the Bible, there are many in this country who feel that most churches do that every day by rationalizing war and other evil things. I did a job for a church the other day. "Pray for our Troops " was on the billboard. Would Jesus, living in the Mideast as He did, pray only for America troops? Or would He pray FIRST for the innocents, and then for the warriors, on all sides? Are we to be like Jesus?
As I understand it, the consummation was indeed a marriage, and marriages involve sex.
OK. Let's start with a little clarification. Please correct me where I'm wrong. You believe that someone by the name of Wayne Bent died but that Jesus is inhabiting that formerly dead body and is living somewhere in New Mexico under the assumed name Michael Travesser. Michael Travesser is married and is having sexual relations with a large number of women. How many women is he married to? Revelation refers to 144,000. Please explain the number 144,000 as it relates to the "People of Travesser" and "Michael's" intention on having sexual intercourse with them all.
Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:37 am Post subject: errors
Mr Shubert,
You are wrong on several counts.
First, I do not either believe or disbelieve what you said about Mr. Bent.
Secondly, the renamed Mr. Travesser, as far as I know, does not have sexual relations outside his marriage, which was to two women.
I have no idea where your idea of him needing or wanting sex with 144000 women came from, but it is obviously ridiculous. As far as how the 144000 relates to the people there, I suppose that they consider themselves part of them.
I believe that the group out there has just given up talking to other religious forums because others do not want to discuss matters seriously, and instead assume terrible things are taking place.
Again I repeat: I am not living there, so make no assumptions about me.
So you want to discuss a group you really know nothing about and I probably know more about them than you do. I recommend that you do some research first and then come back when you're sufficiently enlightened. Talk to his followers about specific answers to their accusers or read their messages and that of eyewitnesses. Start here:
Eugene,
Your previous posts on this thread show that you know very little about this. Even I know enough to see that. What you think you know is largely lies. In one post you ask if sex is involved. In another you think that Wayne Bent might be having sex with ALL the women. Now you claim to know more than I do.
Where exactly ARE you coming from??
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:34 am Post subject: Michael Travesser claims to be Michael the archangel
Quote:
I was asked by News4 if I were Michael the archangel. I answered, Yes, I am. [1]
I think statements like this one would be very easy for Michael Travesser to deny if he doesn't believe it. I also think it's easy to figure out who the cult followers of Michael Travesser are at this bulletin board, and to understand the specific charges against them by their critics who have posted here and who is evading the truth and who is telling the truth.
On Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:20 pm, Solomon, in this jail forum, accused Fortitude Travesser saying, "Your Micheal (Wayne) is a fornicator."
Fortitude Travesser responded by saying that, basically, Michael Travesser is Christ and fornication is holy for Him by virtue of the fact that everything Christ does is holy [2].
I'm not deeply impressed by that logic.
Ellen G. White wrote:
I remember thirty-six years ago, I was in New York, in the house of Brother Abbey. A man came in there with an umbrella in his hands, and there he stood and said, "I am Christ." I had looked upon Christ, and I said to him, "Sir, you have no part with Christ. If you were Christ you would never have uttered that sentence." He raised his umbrella to strike me, but my husband stepped in between him and me, and said to him, "What are you going to do sir?" He said, "I am Christ, and will execute His will upon those that dispute His claims." Sermons and Talks Volume One, pp. 22-23.
Isn't that false Christ who wanted to cause harm to Sister White just like the God you worship?
OK. Let's start with a little clarification. Please correct me where I'm wrong. You believe that someone by the name of Wayne Bent died but that Jesus is inhabiting that formerly dead body and is living somewhere in New Mexico under the assumed name Michael Travesser. Michael Travesser is married and is having sexual relations with a large number of women. How many women is he married to? Revelation refers to 144,000. Please explain the number 144,000 as it relates to the "People of Travesser" and "Michael's" intention on having sexual intercourse with them all.
Mr. Shubert, I am only writing because you said, "Please correct me where I'm wrong." I am one of the Travesser family who lives here in NM with Michael. Everything you have said and implicated above is wrong. Where have you heard these things? Why would you repeat ideas publicly which you have not verified? _________________ "If this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought; but if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it." Acts 5:38-39
I am one of the Travesser family who lives here in NM with Michael.
Are you saying that you live in the same home with Michael Travesser, and are his constant companion, and an eyewitness of whomever enters his bedroom? Why should anyone believe a blind follower of a deluded pretender who claims to Michael the archangel [1] when Fortitude Travesser has admitted to the accusations stated by Solomon? [2].
Mr. Schubert, I have told you the truth and you have chosen not to receive it, but have eagerly believed reports that are false. I have nothing more to say. _________________ "If this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought; but if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it." Acts 5:38-39
Are you calling Fortitude Travesser a liar? And are you aware of moigboi's admission that Michael Travesser has a doctrine called the consummation and that it involves sex? Also, are you certifying that you read Solomon's accusations in the link I posted and the damning response by Fortitude Travesser?
Don't blame me for trying to make sense of the many worshipful testimonies praising Michael Travesser as Christ that also concede that the person you gave your mind and soul to is a sex-crazed megalomaniac. A sane reaction for anyone following Michael Travesser would be to recognize that he has a major problem with his public persona. I don't see how tightlipped responses spouting ignorant denials are of any help at all.
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: Truth
Mr. Shubert, if I may, I would like to point out Moigboi is not a member of the Travesser group. I have known him for many years and he knows of them mainly through his relationship with me. As you know I was a member there for 11 years and know first hand what the people in NM believe. Moigboi is simply impressed with their degree of consecration to those beliefs. Which is something he has not found very often (if at all) in other churches or people he has met. Mr. Shubert, you have labeled him as a 'fanatical cultist" but I think the label "confused" you gave him before is more accurate. Moigboi is trying to understand what being Christlike is and why does it seem that the fanatical groups, cursed by most people, are more sincere in their beliefs than most? So if you can, be patience with him. I would like to respond now to some of the things mentioned here.
Moigboi wrote:
Quote:
"I have been studying Scripture, and listening to the Holy Spirit a lot, and find that the idea that we can have the spirit of Messiah, that is, become so filled with His spirit that we sin no more since we die to ourselves, is Truth."
I believe this to be truth also, though I see Christ Jesus as Messiah not Wayne Bent.
Ellen Wrote this.
Quote:
The ideal of Christian character is Christlikeness. As the Son of man was perfect in His life, so His followers are to be perfect in their life. Jesus was in all things made like unto His brethren. He became flesh, even as we are. He was hungry and thirsty and weary. He was sustained by food and refreshed by sleep. He shared the lot of man; yet He was the blameless Son of God. He was God in the flesh. His character is to be ours. . . . {RC 24.2}
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48. {HP 186.1}
In order for our character building to be pleasing to God, we must constantly advance in spirituality. We must regard as worthless anything that lessens faith and confidence in our Redeemer. The more light there is shining into our souls, the greater the demand upon us to reflect that light to others. God desires you to let your light shine forth to the world. He will be glorified in our individual reflection of His character. . . . {HP 186.2}
Moigboi continued:
Quote:
And if it is Truth, why do people get so upset when one says "I am the way, the Truth, and the Light"?"
Ellen White wrote this:
Quote:
Only Those Far From Christ Claim Sinlessness. --Why is it that so many claim to be holy and sinless? It is because they are so far from Christ. I have never dared to claim any such a thing. From the time that I was 14 years old, if I knew what the will of God was, I was willing to do it. You never have heard me say I am sinless. Those that get sight of the loveliness and exalted character of Jesus Christ, who was holy and lifted up and His train fills the temple, will never say it. Yet we are to meet with those that will say such things more and more.--Manuscript 5, 1885. {3SM 354.2}
I see that if people are filled with the Spirit of Christ they simply go about doing good as Jesus did. Seeking to bring peace and well being to all they meet in a day. They will have no interest in exalting themselves because they are only trying to fulfill the will of the One they love and who loves them. Knowing only that it is by His power that they live and breath, therefore, knowing this, puts an end to all their boasting. Those who are boasting has of yet see the true beauty of Christ. For when the different prophets in the bible saw His glory they proclaimed themselves corrupt and undone, even the ones whom the scriptures insinuated were perfect. _________________ Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.
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