Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:54 am Post subject: I am a living soul
It is commonly believed among evangelical Christians that man is different from the animals in that he possesses an immortal soul. But in the Creation account, both animals and men are called souls. The Hebrew word for soul, nephesh, used of Adam in Genesis 2:7, is used of animals in Genesis 1:21, 24; 2:19; 9:10,12,15,16 et cetera, where it is translated "living creature." Sea creatures are called souls in Revelation 16:3. Basically, a soul is a living creature—whether man or animal. [1]
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Generally, the word soul in the New Testament means the true self, the inner person.
Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 11:29
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Luke 12:19-20
And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take your ease; eat, drink, and be merry." But God said to him, "Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?"
If that only refers to living organisms, then how would you to go hell/heaven?
do you believe bacteria (who are living creatures) also go to hell/heaven?
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But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
that also seems to say that they're separate, so how could a living organism be a soul and have a body if soul means living organism?
There is nothing unusual about one word taking on two different shades of meaning. Soul means the true essence of a person or the whole person.
Mark 12:30
And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.
Acts 2:41
Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to [the church].
I don't expect to see a resurrection of dogs, cats and your favorite bacteria unless dogs, cats and bacteria can sin and then repent of their sin through the grace and perfect forgiveness that comes by faith in Jesus Christ. Can God resurrect both a believing boy and his dog if the boy loved his dog enough? Sure, God can do that and will if it's the most loving thing to do. You should know that Scripture is silent about redemption for pets.
AW, it is also important to note that we do not see hell as an ever burning location. Instead we see it as the destruction of the wicked. Therefore Jesus says that Body and Soul are DESTOROYED in hell.
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MT 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
A soul is not an eternal thing. It dies. Only those to whom God GIVES immortality have life.
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RO 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
those who accept the gift of eternal life are made immortal (in their flesh, if you want more texts on this, let me know, I know you are not big on lenthy posts:). Those who do not accept it die.
Again Ezekiel affirms that the soul dies.
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EZE 18: 20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
There are times too when the soul simply refers to one's inner being. Or true self you could say. But the Bible does not attribute to it either immortality or seperate existence.
There are times too when the soul simply refers to one's inner being. Or true self you could say.
so... if they're not separate, then the soul= the brain. you hurt the brain, you hurt your soul. right?
I guess one could think of it as ... you die, if you're good god gives you immortality, if you were bad you died. right?
but.... say your brain is damaged and your personality changed (remember that railroad worker?)... and you do believe in god and all that. What is saved? your old personality or your new one? how does that work?
1CO 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power
As the above quote indicates God will raise us in a perfect body, restoring the decay and problems that came about from living in a sinful world. Therefore I would hold that it would be the one with full faculties. But since it doesn't elaborate, just a guess :)
interesting... so a perfect body would include a perfect personality right? I mean, the personality IS in the brain. Hence you hurt your brain, you change your personality.
so then what the hell is the point? if you're going to be restored and be perfect, then why live? why try to be good? why anything? If when you die you become perfect... then of course god wouldn't punish someone perfect right?
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restoring the decay and problems that came about from living in a sinful world.
does that mean childhood trauma because your dad was so evil that you tried to run away... then when he caught you he beat you so badly you were in a comma for three days? etc?
what you just said pretty much trivializes your whole belief system.
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 65 Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject: Soul
Hi all
I prefer to see terms such as soul, body, spirit, etc as different perspectives of the one whole person. This is, I believe, the Hebraic understanding. Lawrence Richards has these comments in his The Applied Bible Dictionary:
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The OT views human beings as whole persons and does not break man's nature into parts. The terms used in speaking of human beings -- which includes soul, spirit, flesh, heart, and others -- are elements in the biblical "vocabulary of perspective." In the vocabulary of perspective, "flesh" describes the whole persons in view of his or her experience on this earth; "heart" describes the whole person as a conscious self, unaware of emotions and other inner states; "soul" is the essential self, the distinctive identity of the person. Thus, "soul" frequently serves as a personal pronoun: (Ps. 6:3), and to "lift up" one's soul to God means simply the person focuses all his attention on the Lord (Ps. 25:1).
I believe this should be the assumed meaning of the term 'soul' unless the context determines otherwise.
interesting... so a perfect body would include a perfect personality right? I mean, the personality IS in the brain. Hence you hurt your brain, you change your personality.
so then what the hell is the point? if you're going to be restored and be perfect, then why live? why try to be good? why anything? If when you die you become perfect... then of course god wouldn't punish someone perfect right?
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restoring the decay and problems that came about from living in a sinful world.
does that mean childhood trauma because your dad was so evil that you tried to run away... then when he caught you he beat you so badly you were in a comma for three days? etc?
what you just said pretty much trivializes your whole belief system.
AW, no, and if you read my answer you would know that only those who are saved have eternal life or are restored to a perfect state. So it doesn't trivialize anything.
And I think you will find there is something to our belief system beyond simply being good.
Spozzie, yeah, in most cases I can agree with that. But at times they tend to take on more specific meanins, such as spirit being breath etc.
Hence, as you said the contextual usage allowance.
And I think you will find there is something to our belief system beyond simply being good.
Well of course. Otherwise I and many others would be going to heaven :P Many times nonchristians follow the ten commandments better than christians.
anyway, what about what you learned while being brain damaged? say you became a better person afterward. Is that taken away from you when you are "restored"?
say when you had a great brain you were agnostic. Then your brain got damaged and so you turned to religion. What then?
Well of course. Otherwise I and many others would be going to heaven :P Many times nonchristians follow the ten commandments better than christians.
Unless you have never broken any of the commandments, no you would not be going to heaven. I was referring to forgiveness, which is the key element of Christianity, and, largely, what seperates it from other religions.
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anyway, what about what you learned while being brain damaged? say you became a better person afterward. Is that taken away from you when you are "restored"?
say when you had a great brain you were agnostic. Then your brain got damaged and so you turned to religion. What then?
If you had no inclination toward God until your brain was damaged, and the faith was merely a result of trauma, not sincere motives or rethinking, then I doubt it would be of any use to God. Since the Bible affirms that God can read the heart, and we cannot, I leave it to Him. If someone is religious but insincere, brain damage or not it will not help them.
Unless you have never broken any of the commandments, no you would not be going to heaven. I was referring to forgiveness, which is the key element of Christianity, and, largely, what seperates it from other religions.
Well... isn't one of the commandments to believe in god or something?
I totally disagree with your second statement. There are plenty of other religions that "forgive".
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