Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 5:37 am Post subject: DOES ECUMINISM FULFIL PROPHECY?
Dear message board members,
This is my first real contribution. Hope it will spark some wortwhile discussion here. The following revealing quote from the 2004 Encarta Encyclopedia (CD-ROM) is indicating that 'ecumenism' is here to stay. It is absolutely clear that this is what Mrs. White prophecied would happen, as she spoke nearly a hundread years ago in Great Controversy (1911) , despite in her time there was nothing to indicate that what is now happening would happen. But my question is, since Jesus prayed for his followers to be one, is it any harm for Churches to unite? So what is so bad about ecumenism? Could this be Satan's counterfeit version of fulfilling Jesus' prayer? Please share your thoughts after reading the following quote.
Quote:
...Until the 20th century, only sporadic efforts were made to reunite a Christendom shattered through the centuries by schisms, the Reformation, and other disputes...Ecumenism is changing. Consolidation of Protestant churches has progressed rapidly. During the 1980s, the ecumenical movement was characterized by increasing consensus on doctrinal questions that had once been highly disputed, and by growing cooperation at all levels. This was due largely to the bilateral dialogues that took place between the various Christian churches—Anglican, Orthodox, Protestant, and Roman Catholic—during the 1970s...Ecumenical leaders make clear that they are not seeking a Christian unity that would gloss over basic theological differences. There remain many obstacles, such as the ordination of women, papal authority, Mariology, contraception, and even a general fear of “bigness.” Ecumenists believe, however, that much progress can result from a continuing stress on the many points on which the churches agree.
Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 9:14 am Post subject: Who predicted ecumenism?
Your words are terribly imprecise, misleading and just plain wrong.
Ellen G. White acknowledges Charles Beecher as one of many that perceived the rise of ecumenism. Ellen White supplemented that widespread, preexisting Christian expectation with many arguments and Bible-based insights taken from Seventh-day Adventist writers. Here is a sample of her writings, attributable to the fusion of uncontested historical facts with then current Adventist prophetic beliefs. See The Great Controversy, pages 444-445:
The wide diversity of belief in the Protestant churches is regarded by many as decisive proof that no effort to secure a forced uniformity can ever be made. But there has been for years, in churches of the Protestant faith, a strong and growing sentiment in favor of a union based upon common points of doctrine. To secure such a union, the discussion of subjects upon which all were not agreed—however important they might be from a Bible standpoint—must necessarily be waived.
Charles Beecher, in a sermon in the year 1846, declared that the ministry of "the evangelical Protestant denominations" is "not only formed all the way up under a tremendous pressure of merely human fear, but they live, and move, and breathe in a state of things radically corrupt, and appealing every hour to every baser element of their nature to hush up the truth, and bow the knee to the power of apostasy. Was not this the way things went with Rome? Are we not living her life over again? And what do we see just ahead? Another general council! A world's convention! Evangelical alliance, and universal creed!" —Sermon on "The Bible a Sufficient Creed," delivered at Fort Wayne, Indiana, Feb. 22, 1846. When this shall be gained, then, in the effort to secure complete uniformity, it will be only a step to the resort to force.
When the leading churches of the United States, uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, shall influence the state to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions, then Protestant America will have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy, and the infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result.
. . . .
The "image to the beast" represents that form of apostate Protestantism which will be developed when the Protestant churches shall seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas.
Dear Dzien,
Thanks for pointing out my oversight as it concerns my reading of Mrs. White on this matter, as well as my limited knowledge of the rudimentary forms of ecumenism existing in the U.S. during Mrs. White's time. Can you tell me more about this? I am willing to learn. Aso, what of the other questions I asked? What really is so bad about ecumenism? And is ecuminism the answer to Jesus' prayer that we be one, or is this a tool of Satan meant to bring about the new world order. I hear very well Mrs. White's description of the matter, but what of Biblical texts to show us how we should view ecumenism? Please continue to share your thoughts, Dzien (and others), but with less dramatics please. I do wish to dialogue in the true spirit of brotherly kindness, even if there is need to disagree at times. _________________ THE WORD IS MY SWORD AND SHIELD
No superficial or rationalized theory is able to reveal the collective inter-working philosophy that guides ecumenism. If you're determined to learn Satan's science in great detail, try encountering an ecumenist firsthand and grapple with his viewpoint. Is there no ecumenical Seventh-day Adventist pastor in your area?
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 2 Location: Tampa, Florida USA
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:17 pm Post subject: ecumenism
Hello Michael, group:
Have you considered the possibilty that the ecumenical movement is merely the open manifestation of Rome's daughters making their pilgrimage home to mama?
"Re 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."
Who are the harlots and abominations that she has birthed? Who are they that branched off in a rebellious uprising against the mama tree?
Incremental development is the norm of historical flow...ebb and flow like a tide....
The church of God is not built with men's hands nor seen with natural eyes. His church has always been a remnant, and can be found scattered throughout the world in diverse places.
Therefore, the great apostasy we see unfolding in the protestant churches should come as no surprise.
Not all within their walls are of Christ anymore than all without their walls are without Christ; the wheat and the tares grow up together-and the tares grow up alot more quickly than the wheat-it's their nature.
A sister,
Hiswhiterose _________________ "Truth is not a relative, abstract concept-it's an absolute person-Jesus Christ."
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