Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 53 Location: California
Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 12:54 pm Post subject: 7 Trumpets restored to the bible timing, not mans
After Jesus throws down the censer in verse Rev 8:5, it is forever too late to repent and be saved. All hell is about to break forth. Verse 6 tells of the Seven Trumpet Angels as they "prepare themselves to sound." At this point, man is permitted to do what he wants to do. He has been "chomping at the bit" to engage in warfare. All these weapons of mass destruction are now released into man's hands, by the four angels. And they WILL BE USED. Just think, one submarine can pack more destructive force, than all the bombs dropped during World War II by thousands of planes. "The nations of the world are eager for conflict; but they are held in check by the angels. When this restraining power is removed, there will come a time of trouble and anguish. Deadly instruments of warfare will be invented. Vessels with their living cargo, will be entombed in the great deep." 7A Bible Commentary 967.
The Seven Trumpet Angels of this chapter, along with Revelation 9, 10, & 11, are only an announcement of the seven last plagues, found in Revelation 15 & 16. Remember how Moses and Aaron went before the King of Egypt and announced the plague for the following day? Same thing once again. The Bible itself tells us, in Revelation 9:20 where the trumpets are mentioned, referring to them as "plagues". Also, Revelation 11:6 mentions "plagues", in a Bible chapter dealing with the trumpets. Now does the Spirit of Prophecy also have words of instruction linking the seven trumpets and seven plagues together? Yes, ever so plainly. Read Maranatha, page 284. Also, Letter #55, 1895. In addition, this quote, "Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth." Maranatha 237, 3 Selected Messages 426.
If you're curious why this thread of yours was moved out of Midheaven, it is because you appear to disagree with the fundamental teachings of this ministry. You might want to read carefully the user agreement and the forum rules.
The core essence of what is taught in the Midheaven/Revelation forum about the book of Revelation is summarized in this link.
Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 53 Location: California
Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 3:31 am Post subject:
Eugene, thanks for informing me that this subject has been moved. But please tell me where it can be discussed. I am only interested in what the bible and SOP has to say on this subject without going to the church fathers for their understanding. God has given reasoning powers to each of us.
The name of this particular forum is Subtle Misunderstanding. It is ideally suited for those who prefer to base their reasoning on Ellen G. White and not the Bible. You are now in the right place.
Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 53 Location: California
Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 8:05 am Post subject:
Eugene what you consider "subtle misunderstanding" may not be that at all. Holy angels & unfallen worlds could be reading along here and are rejoycing that God's word is finally being allowed the freedom to be examined against the traditions of men.
The freedom to compare God's Word against fables is what this messageboard is all about. But that's not enough. Freedom must be put to good use. Heavenly beings rejoice when human stubbornness, confusion and pride are recognized, confessed and then surrendered to the Spirit of truth in all humility.
Your opening post is already a remarkable self-contradiction. You rightly assert that the seven trumpet judgments follow the close of probation—thus there is no chance to repent—but then you compare that with the threats of Moses, which the Bible records as opportunities to repent (Exodus 8:1-2).
Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 53 Location: California
Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 9:35 am Post subject:
Eugene, yes I am priviliged to report that the 7 trumpets of Revelation 8:6 begin immediately AFTER Jesus throws down the censer in verse five. The church fathers suggested to me growing up in Adventism in the 50s that Revelation 8:1 was in the FUTURE, but all the remaining verses in chapter 8 & 9 are in the past. A child could see through this nonsense if it wasn't for these long over the hill discourses that was taught by the world even before Adventist came along. No, my desire is to get off this planet by studing God's word in it's native purity. Thanks for reading from my initial post, almost everthing that's important is given there to start the true truth seekers on the right path to know with certainty the truth on the 7 trumpets.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 10:09 am Post subject: But can you explain why there are three sequences?
Ed,
The historicist scholar George Eldon Ladd says that the three cycles of judgment—seven seals, seven trumpets and seven last plagues—is the greatest mystery in the book of Revelation. I hope you realize that you haven't resolved that mystery.
Coincidentally, what you and honored scholars are only aiming for I have been teaching for many years.
Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 53 Location: California
Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 12:02 pm Post subject:
Eugene just because you have arrived to your position without examining what I have to say speaks volumns. Why even the historicist scholar George Eldon Ladd should consider reading along as I open the bible to allow God's word to speak to all of us. Why I thought that every school boy knows that "He that answereth a matter before he heareth [it], it [is] folly and shame unto him. Chap. 18, Verse 13, [PRO].
Tell me, who is allow to read down here in these basement threads? What I have to say should be on the National News. Are you prepared to tell heaven as you suppress that what you consider trivia today? Someday you just may awake and start searching for like words of truth and realize that the door is closed for futher study. It should be/is a fearful thing to lead another soul astray. When I need to guess or speculate as does George Eldon Ladd, that's the day I stay home and study God's word.
Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Sterling, MA
Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 2:30 pm Post subject:
Hi Ed,
You posted a couple of questions:
Ed White wrote:
Tell me, who is allow to read down here in these basement threads? What I have to say should be on the National News. Are you prepared to tell heaven as you suppress that what you consider trivia today?
I, like you, am a fairly new Forum member. I just want to clarify a "subtle misunderstanding" you may have concerning Forum protocol.
Eugene and his fellow Teachers/Ministers/Administrators manage this site consistently by the rules that you were directed to in this message:
Eugene Shubert wrote:
If you're curious why this thread of yours was moved out of Midheaven, it is because you appear to disagree with the fundamental teachings of this ministry. You might want to read carefully the user agreement and the forum rules.
I believe the specific item (from the User Agreement) that Eugene was referring you to was this:
"3. The Plain of Megiddo forums is the place to dispute, contend and argue about what comes down from Midheaven;"
while what 'comes down from Midheaven' is this:
"1. The Midheaven forums are a sacred place that is used exclusivelyfor teaching and investigating the special truths of this ministry" (emphases mine).
So, to directly answer your questions: everyone, member or non-member alike, can and do view these threads that you called "basement threads." [The real basement is Hell--if you go there (not recommended) I think you'll see that a wide range of opinions coexist on this Forum.] So take heart--there was no demotion; and, I believe, there is no "suppression." Your thread was placed in what Eugene saw as appropriate for a discussion of a subject not "exclusively" relevant to "teaching and investigating the special truths of this ministry."
It seems to me that this is a fairly common occurrence on this Site.
I've found that this is not your average Board. It's worth taking some time to look around and see exactly what those unique teachings are. A good reference is found in The Ends of Time; it's a very comprehensive, well-crafted and challenging study of the book of Daniel.
That way, you're speaking with a fundamental understanding of where Eugene, et al from CTC are coming from. I think you'll find Eugene willing to listen to and debate with you concerning your unique view--but after you take a look at the link I've supplied (and its degree of Biblical scholarship,) I think you'll realize that Eugene hasn't jumped to any conclusions concerning Daniel and the Revelation. I will say this, though: Gene doesn't waste words. He'll cut through a lot of 'stuff' VERY succinctly. Take your time here, and I think you'll get a lot out of it.
Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 53 Location: California
Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 5:11 pm Post subject:
Hello Starman, thanks for the info, it would have taken me days to figure out what you just explained with just a few words. But I know how to abide by the rules, but mans rules must take a back seat to Gods rules. One being "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet,
and shew my people their transgression, and the house of
Jacob their sins. Chap. 58, Verse 1, [ISA].
My belief system has been for a long time now that truth can stand investigation. If it cannot I want to renounce my error immediately. But to change my view it must be a thus sayeth the Lord through the KJV or the SOP. Leaning on mans studies is like drawing drinking water from a deep well using a rope of sand.
I will look for your link to click and read, but if it is the memory work of another generations study material that never was truth, I will not allow my mind be cluttered with spurious material for very long before I find the exit.
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