The Faith I Live By, page 305. EGW

Is what you are going to reveal to edify the church or tear it down. Be sure what spirit that you present of this disturbance.

There are brothers and sister, who are influenced by what others say and do, who are weaker in the faith. We must be sure, that what we present is for the whole church or for those that need to do something about it.

Example: A brother wrote in another forum about a disturbance in his church. He asked for our insight as a group in how he should handle this situation. We graciously offered our humble statements and prayers as he went forward. What we shared, gave hope to many, comfort to all, peace of heart and God was glorified.

I do not know the forum rules that well for here, I am sure they will tell you. But my guess is, it is not what they say, but how you present it, that will make it acceptable.

As for the message of Luke 4, we are not confronted with this today. The Messiah has come and is with us now. What Jesus presented was truth for that generation to be revealed. The Kingdom of God is at hand. It was the living flesh that came to dwelt among them had arrived.

We now have "present truth", that the world needs to hear and see. It was a message that caused a disturbance in the 1800's to the world and still does today. The Law of God vindicated. The promise of the good news, that the judgment message is at hand and the Character of God is to be presented to a dying world.

Can you present a positive message that will edify the church? Yes she is the church militant, with defective seeds in her mist, but she will one day be the church Triumphant. This church belongs to Him and in its mist are the Children of God that He so dearly paid for with His life, for the shedding of blood for the remission of sins for our sins and not just for us, but for the whole world, that through Him all might be saved.

This is what we should proclaim. Yes, we have a defective church, we have tares in our mist, but there is "one church in the world who are at the present time standing in the breach, and making up the hedge, building up the old waste places".

Schabbat Shalom

Your sister in Christ.

Liane

Jesus IS Enough

Eugene, I'm not too sure whether your words intend to help edify God's church or is an attempt to tear it down.

Don't get me wrong! I'm not blind to the imperfections of the leaders and members of the SDA church. Satan endlessly will try to attack us from within as well as from without! But we also must understand that God loves each and every one of us, despite all our faults. The church right now isn't expected to be perfect! We need to be nurtured and taught, chastened and scorned by the Holy Spirit. We are to be "...tried as gold in the fire", we are "...a brand plucked out of the fire."

Yes, I know that quite a few of the people whom God has ordained are abusing their responsibilities, but remember that God still ordained them!

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation." Romans 13:1,2

Jesus Christ had full rights to judge those in the synagogue and to chasten us, the Laodicean church in Revelation 3:14-19. He is God! Only God has the right to judge the people. We have no rights to judge! We are but dust!

"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ....Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." Romans 14:10,13

Paul mentioned in I Timothy 1:15 that he was the chief of all sinners. Eugene, are you any better than I am? Than the ordained leaders of God's church? We must always remember that we are all sinners, saved by the precious blood of Jesus Christ! Amen!

We all know the Lord's prayer in Matthew 6:9-13, but the following 2 verses are just as striking!
"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." Matthew 6:14,15

In response to the disturbance you wish to report, always keep this text in mind.
"Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good." Romans 12:21

I pray that this has helped a little! I'm no theologian, but I'm growing in my relationship with Jesus Christ and He is more than enough for me! Amen!

Peace and blessings to all!

Aletha

And Amen to you. Your words came from the WORD itself. God has spoken through you in a special way. Let us all be teachable and we will be greatly rewarded.

Thank you.

May you have a blessed Sabbath.

Liane

Your words were few, but to the point. It is clear that you have a very good concept of what is going on.

Each one of us has something offer and are to be witnessing tools for the Lord. He has given the Evangelism gift to all of us in some way to tell the world of His Glory.

Liane

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Originally posted by liane:
Del Star:

Each one of us has something offer and are to be witnessing tools for the Lord. He has given the Evangelism gift to all of us in some way to tell the world of His Glory.

Liane

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PRAISE GOD!! AMEN!
God uses everyone of us to be His tools in telling people about the Good News of Jesus Christ and His gift to us!

Brothers and sisters, stay in the boat, keep the faith! It won't be long until we see Jesus coming in the clouds of Glory!

(sorry! I just got carried away!)

God Bless!

Aletha

It is just wonderful to get excited about Jesus. When you are filled with His power and Love in your life, one just cannot contain themselves.

It know we are going to be living through some very difficult times, they are already happening, but let us keep our eyes on Him and he will see us through the storm. I like to read Isa 60. I think the first five verses.

Liane

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Those who start up to proclaim a message on their own individual responsibility, who, while claiming to be taught and led of God, still make it their special work to tear down that which God has been for years building up, are not doing the will of God. Be it known that these men are on the side of the great deceiver. Believe them not. — Ellen G. White, The Faith I Live By, page 305.

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To all appearances, it seems that Jesus was proclaiming a message on his own individual responsibility.

I think you can say he claimed to be taught and led of God.

Is it fair to say that Jesus had a special work of tearing down the church?

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His days were passed in ministry to the crowds that pressed upon Him, and in unveiling the treacherous sophistry of the rabbis. MB 102.

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How many of you believe it’s tearing down the church for Jesus to teach the following about the church leadership:

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For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20.

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Was it outrageous for Jesus to publicly condemn church leaders? Is that tearing down the church?

Note that the Sermon on the Mount—including Matthew 5:20—was a public message. Who was present?

Besides the usual crowd from the Galilean towns, there were great numbers from Judea, and from Jerusalem itself; from Perea, and from the half-heathen population of Decapolis; from Idumea, away to the south of Judea, and from Tyre and Sidon, the Phoenician cities on the shore of the Mediterranean. “Hearing what great things He did,” they “came to hear Him, and to be healed of their diseases; and . . . power came forth from Him, and healed them all.” Mark 3:8, R.V.; Luke 6:17-19, R.V. — Ellen G. White, Thoughts From the Mount of Blessing, page 4, paragraph 2.

See also, The Desire of Ages, page 298, paragraph 2:

Besides the usual crowds from the Galilean towns, there were people from Judea, and even from Jerusalem itself; from Perea, from Decapolis, from Idumea, away to the south of Judea; and from Tyre and Sidon, the Phoenician cities on the shore of the Mediterranean. “When they had heard what great things He did,” they “came to hear Him, and to be healed of their diseases: . . . there went virtue out of Him, and healed them all.” Mark 3:8; Luke 6:17-19.

Jesus taught that “salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22). Isn’t that enough proof that Jesus was for the church? Or did he have to say and believe good things about the church leadership? Or is it your judgment that Jesus should have said nothing negative at all?

I read quite a bit of your website, and I must admit that I am a little taken aback by it! Have you had a very bad experience with one of the leaders of the SDA church?

In answer to your question, Jesus Christ is God. He had every right to judge and chasten the rulers.... because He is God! How else can I put it? We have no right to judge another man.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matthew 7:1,2

I know that it is very upsetting to see leaders ordained by God abusing themselves and others, and putting Jesus Christ to shame. but remember that God alone has every right to judge those who do wrong... and that includes you and me!
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Romans 12:19

Remember that the leaders of God's church who do wrong are also our brothers and sisters in Christ, and we should love them accordingly!
I used to come home and complain about the 'great' wrongs the pastor or the church board had done in the past week! Then the Holy Spirit made me realise that not only was I gossiping, but that I was hurting God because I didn't care about the pastor or the church board. I forgot that they were my brothers and sisters in Christ! I should love and pray for them constantly, not complain constantly!

(I know I'm droning on a bit, but please hear me out!)

What did Daniel do when he prayed? (It's what I've started to do when I pray to God.)

"And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God....WE have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments." Daniel 9:3,4,5

Daniel continues like this halfway through the chapter. Daniel certainly wasn't selfish in his prayers!
Could you imagine if we all prayed to God and confessed our own faults and the faults of others as if they were our own? God is just waiting for us to only humble ourselves and to confess that we have fallen short in His sight and need Christ as our Saviour!
As well as praying for my brethren in my church, I even pray for my country and the government who rules the country! Amen!

"Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing." I Peter 3:8,9

Peace and blessings to all!

Aletha

Amen! God has spoken through you.

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Originally posted by Liane (September 16, 08:04 AM):
Is what you are going to reveal to edify the church or tear it down.

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My intent is to follow the Master. What is your judgment of His intent? Were the upsetting statements, spoken by Jesus in the synagogue at Nazareth, to edify the church or to tear it down? Was the telling of the incident (now Scripture Luke 4:14-30) edifying to the church or just the opposite?

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Originally posted by Liane (September 16, 08:04 AM):
As for the message of Luke 4, we are not confronted with this today.

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The essential elements of the historical narrative (Luke 4:14-30) exist in the Seventh-day Adventist church today.

1. You have God-breathed directives that the righteous obey:

“I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.” 2 Timothy 4:1-2.

2. You have Satan inspired restraints and restrictions that the wicked maintain:

“Satan has laid every measure possible that nothing shall come among us as a people to reprove and rebuke us, and exhort us to put away our errors.” TM 411.

Surely you don’t mean to imply that collisions never take place?

Eugene Shubert

I'll be remembering you always in my prayers.... I hope you're praying for me.

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Galatians 5:14

I'm not the fighting type! God does all the fighting for me!

God Bless you all in Spirit and in truth

Aletha

Elissa N.

Elissa, just click on the link that brother Eugene has put in his comment at the beginning of this thread (it reads "Luke 4:14-30"), and have a read through it.

Then read through the scripture displayed also.
Now read through this thread and you should get a clearer picture of what is going on!

I hope this has helped you.... a little anyway! We're all here to help anyway we can, and if we're no help....pray!

Peace and Blessings to all!

Aletha