A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
Adam, how can you know what Wayne did, or did not tell me in private
Brother Bowman,
I know this, because there are thousands of pages that Michael has written which explain how he was annointed Messiah, and what that looks like. He has addressed the issue that you are talking about many times. In all of these writings, there is no such statement to corroborate this claim. I will say that there are statements that could be "twisted" slightly to make them say such a thing. Based on some of these statements, I could easily see how you could “hear” with your own mind what you have claimed.
It is like this my friend. I once knew a man who told me that when waking up next to his wife in the morning, he was looking into the eyes of a “monster”. Now, I didn't believe for a minute that this woman was a "monster", but due to the man’s perspective in life, he most certainly “thought” that she was a monster.
In like manner, you may have “thought” Michael said Jesus’ body was in a tomb. Your suggestion is like that of the many followers of Jesus who heard him say "you must be cannibals and drink my blood" to enter the kingdom. They found his statement offensive, but did not understand what He was really saying.
Finally, if he did say this, its alright by me. I would just go and ask him what he meant by it.
The modern christian has little ability to understand that Jesus was a "self proclaimed" Messiah as well.
Self-proclaimed?
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. John 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. John 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
John bore witness of him.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
The scriptures bore witness of him.
John 5:36But I have greater witness than [that] of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
His works bore witness of him.
John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
God bore witness of him.
John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Moses bore witness of him.
John 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
The Apostles bore witness of him.
I ask you, according to scripture is Jesus self-proclaimed?
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Did he not say "I am the Way the Truth and the Life"?
Excellent point, he did say he is the way, the truth, and the life. Not a way, a truth, or a life. Since he is the one, there is no room or need for Wayne. Your point could have been even better though had you quoted the entire scripture.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
No man comes to the Father except by him. Jesus, not Wayne. Your hope is misplaced. Snap out of it, you can still turn back. If you continue in this until the end you are doomed, but if you pull out now and repent you can be redeemed. No matter what they tell you out there you won’t lose salvation by turning away from them, you will gain it.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
His only begotten son, Jesus Christ. Even if you don’t listen to me or anyone else please listen to the scriptures. I say these things not to "win" by arguing but in hopes that you will realize their error, your error. _________________ Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Yes it is true Matthew. In Luke 4:16-21, as well as many other places in the bible, Jesus stood before the people and proclaimed that he was the Messiah. Wouldn't that make him a "self proclaimed" Messiah?
If anything in Luke 4:16-21 the scripture he read to the people spoke of him being Messiah. He did tell the truth that he was Messiah, but everyone and everything proclaimed him Messiah as well, as I have shown by using the scripture within the Bible. It wasn't like he just stood up one day and said I'm Messiah and that was all he had going for him. You'd have to be blind in order to miss that, or just not read my posts or the Bible. The rocks themselves would have cried out if the people had not, Luke 19:40. The devils even bore witness of him, Matthew 8:29. I used several scriptures for this specific point, and in my few posts so far have used a great deal of scripture to back up my reasoning. Not particularly in this post, but only because I am not saying anything new. You have skipped over some of what I said. If you are right then face the scripture and using the scripture as I have, without twisting it, prove me wrong. Prove God and Jesus wrong. Do it, show me where it says there will be another as I have shown you where it says he is the only one. Show me where it is written in scripture that it is ok for a husband and a wife to depart from each other as I have shown you using the scripture it is not. Explain to me how he who said thou shalt not commit adultery, Exodus 20:14, said to Wayne that it was not only alright, but necessary to break this commandment, in order to prove his sinlessness to the people. I tell you, in no way can I understand your love for the darkness. Perhaps it is easier to live with your eyes closed. Sadly it seems that whether logic or passion or both together are used you will remain unconvinced. Always clinging to a man that the scripture reveals as false. _________________ Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:12 pm Post subject: Finished
Adam, this is what Wayne said to me that evening,
"Tim, Jesus is not the Christ. He was just a man. A man in whom the Christ had chosen to reveal himself. A man just like me that the Christ has now chosen to reveal himself in at this time. The body of Jesus is still bury in a grave or cave somewhere."
No Adam, I didn't have to think that Michael said Jesus' body was in a tomb. It is exactly what he said. What did Wayne mean by these words? He meant to convince me that he was the second coming of Christ and that I now had to except him as my Lord and Saviour instead of Jesus. He, in this statement was trying to convince me that Jesus himself was not resurrected from the grave by God because if he was then Wayne's claim to fame is a lie. I do not believe anything that I might write here would convince you that Wayne is nothing but a deceiver. I have written these things more for the others who will read this site so they could have more of the facts to base their judgements on.
You have mention my past actions. Let me say here Adam, I have had a little over three years since leaving New Mexico to see what a monster I have been. I am not the one claiming holiness on this site. I've been only pointing out the truth as it has been revealed to me by God and the Scriptures.
Psa 119:12-14 Blessed [art] thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes. With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth. I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as [much as] in all riches.
Proclaiming the commandments of God and His righteousness, as of late, is the only sin you and the others can rightfully accuse me of. _________________ Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.
Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:49 am Post subject: deleted reply
Adam, in your deleted reply I think you said that Wayne said "Jesus is not the Christ. He was just a man. A man in whom the Christ had chosen to reveal himself. A man just like me that the Christ has now chosen to reveal himself in at this time".
If that is correct, it resolves the contradiction for me. Thank you.
I do know this--people base their beliefs about God on many things, dogma, personal satisfaction, programming and tradition, and so on---but the only thing that really matters is that gift from God, that revelation, that cuts to the core and sets itself up as the highest authority in a person's life. I know that God can deliver that revelation to anyone at any time, usually it seems when they are truly open to receiving it.
For this reason I wonder, ask, and pray why Wayne is necessary. If he has given this revelation to you, who can condemn that? But to say that you must be in Wayne's presence to receive it flies in the face of experience. Do you believe that that Holy Spirit, which I guess you now believe resides in Wayne, can be accessed as before by anyone anywhere in prayer?
Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:24 am Post subject: from the Source
Considering this controversy, I asked Michael directly about Tim's accusation.
Tim said that Michael told him this: "Tim, Jesus is not the Christ. He was just a man. A man in whom the Christ had chosen to reveal himself. A man just like me that the Christ has now chosen to reveal himself in at this time. The body of Jesus is still bury in a grave or cave somewhere."
Michael's response is, (and I have his agreement to post this): "No, I did not say this to him or anyone else. He has simply manufactured a lie out of his own perverted imagination. "
In my above deleted post, I had agreed with part of what Michael had supposedly said. After reviewing what I was agreeing to, I felt the wording inaccurate as to my belief and was something I would not want to be quoted as saying, so I deleted it.
Truly, Jesus was a man, as He often referred to Himself. And he was the “Christ” the “Anointed”. In like manner the “Christ” came into Michael, and he became the Anointed One of today.
Why would Adam's reply have been deleted? Certainly he said nothing worse than has already been said on this site.
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I will do this, I will leave you in your desolate house, for you love to have it so.
Adam, I asked you to defend your beliefs with scripture and all you could do was evade. You left your first love. Remember when the scripture was the truth, Jesus Christ was your savior, and God was your Father? Now your house is without foundation and its ruin shall be great.
At one point those who you would call pagan allowed an adulterous man to lead them and their country. Certainly it was wrong, but you who consider yourselves enlightened do worse. For not only do you let an adulterer lead you, but you also worship him. _________________ Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Friend, I am not evading anything, I am just not interested in bantering with devils. There is no point. Devils cannot enter the kingdom of God, nor do they want to.
I will do this, I will leave you in your desolate house, for you love to have it so.
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Friend, I am not evading anything, I am just not interested in bantering with devils. There is no point. Devils cannot enter the kingdom of God, nor do they want to.
Adam, why do you feel like you have to attack my person? You call me friend and devil in the same sentence.
James 3:10Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
Which of my points makes me a devil Adam? Is it my belief that the scripture is true or that Jesus is the Christ?
2Timothy 3:16 All scripture (is) given by inspiration of God, and (is) profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Jude 1:4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. _________________ Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
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