Victory over Sin / Righteousness by Faith (1888 message)

Light Fox

Greetings! :)

Below is a link to an article I have written, explaining the gospel of Christ as presented in scripture and in 1888, contrasted with the popular belief of salvation in sin taught today. Please read through, and then post any questions, objections and the like that arise.

www.CreationSDA.org/Kherev/ChapterOneTheVictory.html

Yahweh bless, and I await your reponses. :)
_________________
- Lucan "Luke" Chartier

Eugene Shubert · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:42 pm Post subject: The gospel of sinlessness

Light Fox,

Your gospel highlights these Scriptures:

Light Fox · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:20 pm Post subject:

Greetings! :)

Well, I am not sure "my" gospel highlights those verses... First I should like to state it is the gospel of Christ; Granted, I cannot expect you to accept that "at face value" or course nor would I wish you to, however, wether I speak from Satan or Savior, my words are not my own.

As for the apparent contradiction; It may be due to note on a "side matter" that Paul was in fact quoting an old testament passage; There were some, though precious few who actually realized and looked forward to claim the victory before the death of Yahshua, and not after.

In any event, the verses in Romans 3 are completely correct; There is none righteous of themselves. Righteousness comes by Christ, and Him alone; When we are born of Him it is His seed that keeps us from sin as the scripture says, not our selves. We are saved by grace, and that same grace keeps us from ever falling; For as scripture says, it is Yah who can keep us from falling and present us faultless before the Throne, and none other.

I hope this clarifies; While the convert will not sin, it is *never* by any power of self; Self dies at conversion (Romans 6) and from then it is "Not I that lives, but Christ that liveth in me." It is Him that worketh in us both to do and to will of His good pleasure, and it is Him that keeps us aloft by His righteousness within us.

To put it in modern terms, so to speak... If you murder someone once then never do it again, you are still guilty of murder and deserve punish for it. Likewise, even though we cease to sin at conversion by His power, we are still not righteous of ourselves because we did fall initially, and it was and is His power that redeems us and keeps us aloft. His nature, not ours. :)

As for Fortitude Travesser; I have never heard of him before... I have read through the link you supplied; I can most assuredly say we do not agree on his interpretation of revelation, and that "He who is not for us is against us" is of the beast. (To quote Christ: "He that is not with us is against us, and he that soweth not scattereth.")

I also do not know who "Wayne" is, but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that he is not the Messiah. :)

As for the gospel itself, I cannot honestly tell; It was not gone into enough to get a clear idea of what he, in fact, believes. There are some who take the verses presented to mean that we will not transgress either knowingly or unknowingly, and in doing so ignore the scripture-given definition between a known transgression, a.k.a. rebellion, and a sin in ignorance, or "not unto death." This as well as the Ellen White quote you cited in that thread.

Most assuredly the Word is true that those born of God will not commit a known sin ever, for any reason... They would die first. However we will, as Paul narrates so clearly in Philippeans 3, grow into new knowledge of previously unknown sins.

If this was not clear or if you have anymore questions, please don't hesitate to ask, and thank you for the ones so far. :)

Happy Sabbath, and Yah bless
_________________
- Lucan "Luke" Chartier

Eugene Shubert · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:47 pm Post subject:

Light Fox · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:53 pm Post subject:

Hello :)

To state clearly; when you ask for my opinion of his gospel, it is that alone I am attempting to give one on; I am ignoring the large amounts of things I disagree with that surround the parts that have to do with sinlessness, so I can give an answer soley on what you are asking for.

To answer; No, I cannot say wether he is fanatical or within limits, right or wrong based on what I read in that thread. I do not know what he believes "sin" to mean, nor if he is taking the verse to mean the Gnostic belief that once you are "Saved," nothing you do is considered sin (regardless of how depraved it actually is.)

There are many other things in that thread that would certainly "clue in" to a degree of fanaticism, do not misunderstand... However again, based soley on the words he used to describe the gospel of living without sin, I find far too little to give an opinion on it.

Yah bless, and Happy Sabbath. :)
_________________
- Lucan "Luke" Chartier