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I don’t see any essential difference between Trinitarian omnipresence and non-Trinitarian omnipresence.
Actually, there is a tremendous difference. I've seen two variations of trinitarian omnipresence. They are as follows:
1.)Trintarianism has THREE GODS (God the Father, "God the Son", and "God the Spirit") all of whom are allegedly co-equal and co-eternal - all of these three gods sharing EQUALLY all the attributes of divinity. Therefore this flavor of trinitarianism teaches that God the Father, "God the Son", and "God the Spirit" ALL are omnipresent.
2.)The second variation of trinitarian omnipresence is the teaching that God, who is the Father, Son, and Spirit is omnipresent by the Spirit only.
Flavor number two essentially grants more power to "God the Spirit" than is possessed by God the Father and "God the Son". This theory effectually destroys the notion that all three gods are CO-EQUAL and possess all the attributes of divinity EQUALLY. Flavor number two stands in stark contradiction to flavor number one. The question is, how many flavors does God come in? Is it one flavor for every distorted and reprobate mind to decide according to its ruling carnal nature? Or is there just one flavor of just one God? I believe that latter to be the case. Trinitarian omnipresence, in the two flavors that I am aware of are both mutually exclusive, contradictory, and self-consuming to the trinitarian position. However, non-trinitarian omnipresence is simply the omnipresence of God according to how He has been pleased to reveal it in His word. The bible makes it quite plain that God, who is the Father is PERSONALLY everywhere present by the mighty agency of His Spirit.
Quote:
Psalms 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Quote:
Psalms 51:11 1 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
So, the difference between trinitarian omnipresence and non-trinitarian (true bible) omnipresence is gargantuan. The only way that this huge difference can be blurred is to accept the notion that the "heavenly trio" is tantamount to the three gods of trinitarianism, i.e., God the Father, "God the Son", and "God the Spirit". And no matter how you slice it, to assume that position places one in the trinitarian camp whether they would like to admit it or not.
Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2002 5:46 pm Post subject: omnipresence
What absurd point would I be making if I were to list a bunch of non-Biblical non-Trinitarian views of omnipresence?
Let’s sharpen the focus a bit. What’s the essential difference between the modern, orthodox, Seventh-day Adventist view of Trinitarian omnipresence as opposed to self-evident, Biblical, non-Trinitarian omnipresence?
Let’s sharpen the focus a bit. What’s the essential difference between the modern, orthodox, Seventh-day Adventist view of Trinitarian omnipresence as opposed to self-evident, Biblical, non-Trinitarian omnipresence?
First off, omnipresence means the same exact thing in the trinitarian view and the non-trinitarian view - i.e. omnipresence means simultaneously everywhere present. The definition of the word is the same. However, its application is extremely different in the two schools of thought.
I believe I covered this in my original post describing flavor number one of trinitarian omnipresence for which modern, orthodox Adventism embraces - which is:
Modern, orthodox, Seventh-day Adventist Trintarianism has THREE GODS (God the Father, "God the Son", and "God the Spirit") all of whom are allegedly co-equal and co-eternal - all of these three gods sharing EQUALLY all the attributes of divinity. Modern, orthodox, Seventh-day Adventist trinitarianism teaches that God the Father, "God the Son", and "God the Spirit" ALL are omnipresent individually.
Whereas the "self-evident", "Biblical", "non-Trinitarian" omnipresence teaches that God is everywhere present BY HIS SPIRIT.
Quote:
Psalms 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psalms 51:11 1 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Modern, orthodox, Seventh-day Adventist trinitarianism teaches that God the Father, "God the Son", and "God the Spirit" ALL are omnipresent individually.
Where does modern, orthodox, Seventh-day Adventist trinitarianism teach this?
If such teaching actually exists, it would contradict, unequivocally, the following statements by Ellen White.
“When He should come forth from the tomb, their sorrow would be turned to joy. After His ascension He was to be absent in person; but through the Comforter He would still be with them.” The Desire of Ages, page 277.
“The Holy Spirit is Christ’s representative, but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally. Therefore it was for their interest that He should go to the Father, and send the Spirit to be His successor on earth. No one could then have any advantage because of his location or his personal contact with Christ. By the Spirit the Saviour would be accessible to all. In this sense He would be nearer to them than if He had not ascended on high.” The Desire of Ages, page 669.
Mickey wrote:
Modern, orthodox, Seventh-day Adventist trinitarianism teaches that God the Father, "God the Son", and "God the Spirit" ALL are omnipresent individually.
Eugene asks:
Where does modern, orthodox, Seventh-day Adventist trinitarianism teach this?
The answer, right here:
Quote:
2. The Trinity:
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)
Fundamental Belief #2 packs it all very nicely. It says above that God is "immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present".
But please note that Fundamental Belief #2 defines God as a unity of three co-eternal Persons. This means that the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God - all separate, individual Deities. Fundamental Beliefs #'s 3, 4, and 5 describe the THREE GODS in the trinitarian godhead thusly:
God number one: "God the eternal Father"
God number two: "God the eternal Son"
God number three: "God the eternal Spirit"
According to the Seventh-day Adventist Fundamental belief system, the above THREE divine beings make up the one God. This belief system says that all THREE of these divine beings are co-eternal. Fundamental Belief # 2 states that God (who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is ever present (omnipresent). They are teaching that God the Father is omnipresent, that "God the Son" is omnipresent, and that "God the Spirit" is also omnipresent - being THREE co-equal and co-eternal Divine Beings in their own right.
This brings us, Eugene, to your next statement:
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If such teaching actually exists, it would contradict, unequivocally, the following statements by Ellen White.
“When He should come forth from the tomb, their sorrow would be turned to joy. After His ascension He was to be absent in person; but through the Comforter He would still be with them.” The Desire of Ages, page 277.
“The Holy Spirit is Christ’s representative, but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally. Therefore it was for their interest that He should go to the Father, and send the Spirit to be His successor on earth. No one could then have any advantage because of his location or his personal contact with Christ. By the Spirit the Saviour would be accessible to all. In this sense He would be nearer to them than if He had not ascended on high.” The Desire of Ages, page 669.
Yes, Eugene, you are 100% correct! This teaching as taught in the Fundamentals most definetly contradicts, unequivocally, the statements cited above by Ellen White!
Now, what's interesting is that if you take a closer look at Fundamentals number 2, you will notice a most glaring inconsistency. In #2, God is defined as a THEY - meaning Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And yet, that very same Fundamental statement defines God as a "He" - for the 2nd Fundamental states that "HE is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation."
This trinitarian doctrine is so erroneous, so scripturally abnormal, so heritical, and so self contradictory and self consuming that even the intelligent scholars that framed those Fundamentals unwittingly exposed the fallacy of this doctrine by leaving the traces of inconsistency and confusion showing conclusively that God who is not the author of confusion is certainly not the author of this doctrine.
The thing you totally miss in your denunciation and accusation that we serve THREE GODS,
when we plainly say there is but ONE GOD, in three persons, in complete harmony of purpose, motive and presence,
is that you continually declare that either you serve TWO DISTINCT GODS
or you deny that Christ is God.
The utter contradication and fallacy lies in the attempt to say that somehow Christ is God by inheritance, yet He is not God, only a son, who is simply the "messenger" and "agent" of God, then you turn around and with great words declare Him taking the NAME OF GOD which makes Him equal to God, but then say He is NOT GOD.
Thus no matter how the eloquence flows.-- it always comes down to the one point that you deny that Christ is God.
If such teaching actually exists, it would contradict, unequivocally, the following statements by Ellen White.
Quote:
“When He should come forth from the tomb, their sorrow would be turned to joy. After His ascension He was to be absent in person; but through the Comforter He would still be with them.” The Desire of Ages, page 277.
“The Holy Spirit is Christ’s representative, but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally. Therefore it was for their interest that He should go to the Father, and send the Spirit to be His successor on earth. No one could then have any advantage because of his location or his personal contact with Christ. By the Spirit the Saviour would be accessible to all. In this sense He would be nearer to them than if He had not ascended on high.” The Desire of Ages, page 669.
No, it does not contradict--
What you fail to realize is the phrase "personality of humanity".
When Christ ascended-- He was no longer BODILY with them.
While He was here, they could SEE, TOUCH, and TALK with Him as to any other person. He was here BODILY as a man.
The spirit is NOT BODILY with us either. We can't see, or touch Him.
Christ took on the "personality of humanity" here on earth. Thus limiting Himself to the same restrictions humanity has. "Cumbered with humanity" that is cumbered with the same type of body we have, He could not be in every place-- He couldn't be in Jerusalem at the Passover, and in the synogogue in Capernium at the same time while "cumbered with humanity". As long as He stayed upon earth "as a man" He could only travel "as a man" and live like "a man".
This was NOT THE CASE before his incarnation--
and we do not really understand how much of "humanity" He has retained. But He now has the glorious body--
and He knows our every thought and motive.
Scripture says He knows the mind of the Spirit--
God is ONE in a sense that the three persons, KNOW each others thoughts--
Thus where ONE is present, ALL are present.
The Spirit WAS with the disciples, even while Christ was with them in person. For we read of Nathaniel
2SP 64 The Spirit of the Lord rested upon Nathanael in such a special manner that he was convinced that Christ was the Messiah.
And Jesus also knew all about Nathaniel--
Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee."
However, the HOLY SPIRIT was to come in a much fuller measure!!
"It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you." John 14:17; 16:7. Henceforth through the Spirit, Christ was to abide continually in the hearts of His children.
Here is an interesting quote:
When the Holy Spirit puts Christ's Spirit into the savage, and he befriends God's servants, the quickening of the heart's sympathy is contrary to his nature, contrary to his education. Christ implants His grace in the heart of the savage, ST.1898-04-21.008
There are just so many quotes that show their ONENESS-- the interchangablity of their persons.
Yes, "they" are three PERSONS-- yet ONE God.
Quote:
"The Father is all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,...
The Son is all the fullness of the Godhead manifested....
the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour.
There are three living persons of the heavenly trio."BT.1906-03-01.002
Three living persons,
Three living persons,
Each is the FULLNESS of the Godhead,
It's not one third of the Godhead,
Each has the FULLNESS of the Godhead.
Of Christ it is written, " Col. 2.9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
The thing you totally miss in your denunciation and accusation that we serve THREE GODS,
when we plainly say there is but ONE GOD, in three persons, in complete harmony of purpose, motive and presence,
is that you continually declare that either you serve TWO DISTINCT GODS
or you deny that Christ is God.
Dedication, all of the trinitarian theological mumbo-jumbo aside, the raw fact is this:
1. You believe in and worship "God the Father" - and rightely so.
2. You beleive in and worship "God the Son" - the bible doesn't know "God the Son" and neither does Ellen White.
3. You believe in and worship "God the Spirit" - the bible doesn't know "God the Spirit" and neither does Ellen White.
The above are NOT three persons in One God. No, they are all God in and of themselves. They constitute not one God but THREE GODS. They are all THREE independent self-existent Gods. There's no way that you can get around this, Dedication.
On the other hand, I worship ONE GOD, the one and ONLY TRUE GOD - the Father (John 17, 3, 1 Corinthians 8:6). It is the will as well as a command of God to worship His Son. That does not equate to the worship of two Gods. For to worship the Son is to render supreme honour and worship to the one and "only true God", the Father. (John 5:23)
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Thus no matter how the eloquence flows.-- it always comes down to the one point that you deny that Christ is God.
I deny that Christ is the "only true God". And so does the bible - so does Christ Himself. You keep forgetting or disregarding the words of Jesus in John 17:3. You can't get around those words, Dedication. The Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD. Christ is NOT the "only true God with the Father" as your doctrine falsely states. The bible doesn't teach it. Neither does Ellen White. Having said that, I believe in the divinity of Christ. He is the Son of God, inheriting all of the attributes of God, His Father. God the Father has always existed. Christ, His Son had a beginning. (Proverbs 8:22-30) You believe that three deities are self-existent, having always been. Show me the scripture that states it. Show me the book and volume in the spirit of prophecy in which Ellen White states that there are three self-existent deities that have always existed, are of the same age as well as power, mind, will, character, etc. Show me where the bible and Ellen White denies that Christ is God's Son prior to the incarnation.
As for the Holy Spirit, yes, the Holy Spirit is Christ's representative. Christ is with us today by His Spirit. But that Spirit is NOT another deity, another God. No, that Spirit is the Spirit of the Lord Hismelf. Its Christ Himself present in His Spirit. When Christ promised to send the Comforter, He didn't promise to send us another deity, another God. No He promised that He Himself would come to us. (John 14:18). The idea that there are three deities that are so united in mind and character that for one to be present is tantamout for them all to be present is totally rediculous - rediculous from a biblical standpoint because there's not one scintilla of scripture in which such a concept is taught. This is YOUR doctrine, Dedication, not the bible's doctrine. Yes, there are "three living persons of the heavenly trio" - the Father, His Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father, the "only true God" is a living person. Christ, His Son is a living person. And the Holy Spirit who is the very personal presence and power of both the Father and the Son, because of that fact (that God and Christ are both living persons), constitutes a living person - but NOT a separate and independent divine being from the Father and the Son. Ellen White said "heavenly trio" NOT "heavenly trinity" or "blessed trinity". In fact, EGW never ever wrote of the trinty as being truth. She never addressed it directly at all. Never did she try to correct her husband and the other pioneers who did write extensively against the doctrine of the trinity. And EGW wasn't shy about exposing error to anyone. She did it in love BUT SHE DID IT!!! Not so regarding the trinity teaching. You and many others take probably less then ten statements from her writings and read the trinity into it while you all disregard the multitude of anti-trinitarian statements from the same pen. Not a very good methodology of arriving at truth. You know, many SDA's also cite her writings to bolster the false teaching that Christ didn't come in sinful flesh. The trinity doctrine is just a sibling teaching of antichrist - denying that Christ came in the flesh and denying the Father and the Son. And now the church proudly waves the banner of the beast!
Joined: 21 Oct 2002 Posts: 50 Location: Abbotsford, B.C. Canada
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 1:18 am Post subject:
Mickey you made the claim that the Bible does not teach that Jesus Christ is the only true God. What about this passage?
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." 1 John 5:20. Now does this passage imply that the Father is not the true God or that the Holy Spirit is not either? Certainly not.
But the verse is plainly saying that Jesus Christ is the true God and eternal life!
In 1 Timothy 6:14,15 we read that "Jesus Christ who is the blessed King of kings, and Lord of lords, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach."
Someone could cite this passage as proving that Christ only hath immortality; that the Father does not have immortality and neither does the Holy Spirit!
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season." Do not bring to the foundation wood, and hay, and stubble--your own surmisings and speculations, which can benefit no one... It is presented to me that spiritual fables are taking many captive... To all who are indulging these unholy fancies I would say, Stop; for Christ's sake, stop to frame doctrines concerning things not revealed. Stop right where you are. You are on forbidden ground." E.G. White, Maranatha, p.369. _________________ Believing unto righteousness Rom.10:10.
Joined: 21 Oct 2002 Posts: 50 Location: Abbotsford, B.C. Canada
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 1:27 am Post subject:
Mickey, now I am very surprised that you would say that Sister White did not mean trinity when using the word Trio!
Now I think that this is stretching the matter a little too far, don't you think? Please follow the advise from above: Stop right there; stop right where you are; you are on forbidden ground!
I am saying this with kindness, Mickey! _________________ Believing unto righteousness Rom.10:10.
Mickey you made the claim that the Bible does not teach that Jesus Christ is the only true God. What about this passage?
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." 1 John 5:20. Now does this passage imply that the Father is not the true God or that the Holy Spirit is not either? Certainly not.
But the verse is plainly saying that Jesus Christ is the true God and eternal life!
No, my brother, that passage certainly does not imply that the Father is not the true God - in fact that passage emphasizes that the Father is the true God. But it does NOT say that Jesus Christ is the only true God. Not at all! Let's break the verse down:
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true..."
Let's stop right here for a moment. It says that the Son of God has come to give us an understanding of WHO? Himself? No, of HIM (the Father) who is true! Jesus came to this world to demonstrate the love of the Father. To give unto us an understanding of who His Father is by beholding His (Jesus') character. That's why Jesus told Phillip that if you've seen Him (Jesus), you've seen the Father. Because they are one in nature and character. The verse continues on saying "and we are in Him (Jesus Christ) that is true, even in HIS SON, Jesus Christ." Let's stop right here. I think its pretty plain that the verse is saying that those of us that are followers of Christ are "in Him" but the Person that "HIS SON" has come to give an understanding of plainly refers to the Father. And its the Father who is the focal point of the verse who is called the "true God". And Jesus, He "who is true" is God's true Son! This is something that the trinitarians deny - that Christ is truly God's Son! What a shame to deny the rock foundation of the christian faith!!! And understanding that the Father is the "true God" by virtue of being "in Christ" (in Him who is true) constitutes eternal life. This is in total harmony with John 17:3 in which Jesus states, "And this is life eternal, that they may know THEE, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ who Thou hast sent".
AB, there is only ONE TRUE GOD and that is the Father. You are teaching that there are two true Gods, nay as a believer in the false doctrine of the trinity, you are teaching that there are THREE TRUE GODS. For you believe that the Father is the only true God. You believe that the Son is the only true God and you believe that the Holy Spirit is also the only true God. That, no matter how you want to slice or spin it translates and adds up to three "true gods'. And the bible knows no such doctrine, my friend. There is only ONE God, my brother, and that is the Father. God's Son, is LITERALLY that - God's Son - His "only begotten Son". The real mystery of the Godhead is not that there are three deities claiming to be one. The real mystery of the Godhead that hasn't been revealed is how God begot His Son. I don't need to know that. All I need is to accept by faith, and faith in exactly what's written in the word of God and not by the decree of an apostasizing church council in concert with a heathen monarch. And what's written in the word of God is that there is ONE God, one singular being who is the "only true God". He has a Son begotten in His "express image of His person" and "brightness of His glory" whose Spirit represents His presence simultaneously throughout His vast creation. I don't need to understand the intracacies of that which is beyond the understanding of the finite mind and intellect. But I am required to accept by faith the plain utterances of God's word and I'll say it again. God's word says: "But to us there is but one God, the Father OF WHOM ARE ALL THINGS". But fundamental belief #2 states: "There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". Anyone who says that they believe the bible and then states that fundy #2, which is diametrically opposed to 1 Corinthians 8:6 is the truth about God is under deception.
Quote:
In 1 Timothy 6:14,15 we read that "Jesus Christ who is the blessed King of kings, and Lord of lords, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach."
Someone could cite this passage as proving that Christ only hath immortality; that the Father does not have immortality and neither does the Holy Spirit!
You are misreading those verses, my brother. Let's take it in context:
1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
We are exhorted to "keep this commandment" (fighting the good fight of faith) until Christ's appearing.
1 Timothy 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
The verse continues saying that Christ, when His time comes, will show WHO IS the blessed and ONLY Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords. Christ isn't showing that its Himself as the "blessed and only Potentate (Potentate is supreme ruler). Jesus came to glorify His FATHER, not Himself!
1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
This "ONLY POTENTATE" is the the One who "ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY". This is NOT Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is NOT going to show Himself as the ONLY POTENTATE who ONLY HAS IMMORTALITY. Jesus Christ never was and never will be the One who dwells "in the light which no man can approach unto". Jesus Christ is NOT the One "whom no man hath seen, nor can see". Many people have seen Jesus Christ. Many people have beheld the pre-incarnate Son of God in the Old Testament. But NOBODY has ever seen the Almighty God, the Father - NOBODY! Only Christ, the Son has seen the Father.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
If Jesus Christ is the "Only True God" then John, under inspiration told a bold-faced LIE - for the "only begotten Son" has been seen by man many times in many places since the creation both in His pre-incarnate existence and in His existence as a member of the human family.
So, you see, Adventbeliever, the verses that you cited are not proof of the trinity, rather they are proof AGAINST the trinity doctrine as being biblical. Jesus is NOT the "only true God" and Jesus is NOT the "blessed and only Potentate, dwelling in the light unapproachable, whom no man hath seen nor can see" and "who ONLY hath immortality.
God the Father is the ONLY BEING who has absolute immortality. Christ, His Son has immortality because He was born of God and inherited the life and divine attributes of God, His Father. That's why Christ was able to lay his immortality down and become a man, a mortal man, subject unto death and thereby pay the penalty for man's sins. That's why Christ was and is the ONLY being that could save us. For being the Son of God, He was equal with God and equal with His law of love, the transcript of the character of God.
Mickey, now I am very surprised that you would say that Sister White did not mean trinity when using the word Trio!
Now I think that this is stretching the matter a little too far, don't you think? Please follow the advise from above: Stop right there; stop right where you are; you are on forbidden ground!
I am saying this with kindness, Mickey!
I appreciate your kind response, AB. But, I must say that I'm surprised that some equate "Trio" with "Trinity" when they have different meanings! Sister White never used the word "trinity". Not even once. She was very careful to never pen that word. Don't you find it rather strange that in the millions and millions of words she employed in writing the multitudinous books, pamphlets, and letters and other testimonies that a very well known word in religous circles such as "trinity" was never once written by her??? Why? Do you think it was too difficult for her to spell the word "trinity"? Was she too lazy and felt it easier to use "trio"? Even though the two words have different meanings??? Don't you find it strange that Sister White never rebuked and corrected her contemporary pioneers, some of which wrote extensively against the trinity doctrine - which included her own husband, James??? Don't you think its strange that Sister White, who never was too shy to rebuke error kept utterly silent with regards to the anti-trinitarian foundations of the Seventh-day Adventist church? She was very vocal and quick to rebuke other errors that tried to creep into the church, but don't you think it strange that she didn't stop the anti-trinitarian doctrine of God from remaining as one of the foundation pillars of the Advent faith??? Don't you think it even more strange that a few misapplied sentences from Desire of Ages is given the credit for leading the church to accept the trinity. Don't you think it rather strange that Ellen White is charged with SUBTILELY bringing in the trinity doctrine thus going against her method of giving a straight-up testimony??? Its amazing! Ellen White is basically being charged with being a "closet" trinitarian! Its all hogwash, my brother. Ellen White never brought the trinity into the church. This all happened after her death. LeRoy Froom is most responsible for bringing that heresy into the church. My goodness, the trinity doctrine wasn't even formally and officially voted as one of the fundamentals until 1980! And Sister White was responsible for this almost a century prior??? I think not. The evidence from the pen of Sister White is overwhelmingly against the doctrine of the trinity. And more importanly, the evidence from the scripture is as well. This is an interesting and important study, my brother. I encourage you to seriously study it out prayerfully.
Joined: 21 Oct 2002 Posts: 50 Location: Abbotsford, B.C. Canada
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:03 pm Post subject:
I am sorry Mickey, but I simply cannot follow where you are going. Human reasoning is foolishness before God. 1 Cor.3:18,19. _________________ Believing unto righteousness Rom.10:10.
I am sorry Mickey, but I simply cannot follow where you are going. Human reasoning is foolishness before God. 1 Cor.3:18,19.
Yes, human reasoning certainly is foolishness before God. So, then please tell me, since you are not providing scriptural testimony to prove the trinity as truth, why are you accepting human reasoning over and above the plain utterances of God's word???
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