A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:50 am Post subject: New to the forum.
Hello, this is to Eugene Shubert.
My name is Christopher. I am a seeker for truth. I have read some of the messages and information posted here and this is all very interesting. I see truth being brought to the forfront and new ideas being premoted. I also see a certain presumtion in the self apointed name "the new william miller". Is this the humility of Christ? I will not step forward to judge but I would like to here the basic reasons for claiming this name. Are you furthering the cause he set out to acomplish? Truely my desire is to find fellow believers in the Word of God. I am 19 and my life has been consecrated to God so that I might be a channel for Him to work through at the end of time to inlighten many about the Truth, so many humans will come to know and follow Him.
I've read through, and continue to read, the Bible and the writings of Ellen White. They are powerful and life changing, Ellen White does not impose on God's Word but clearify's the word and up holds it as the standard for life purity.
What is your view on her?
I am a seventh-day adventist in that I believe in the Seventh-day Sabbath and the emminent return of Christ after the world is inlightend to chose right and wrong, I aswell believe all of the teachings of scripture.
What is your view on SDA's? Do you think that adventism has a chance to repent of it's wrongs and be the final agent through which the three angels message is proclaimed?
Brother, I pray that you are a faithful servant of God. Please reply in anyway possible, I'm sure you are busy.
One more thing I read that gave me a bad feeling about you was you talking about the seventh-day adventists giving homage to the pope? This may be true in some cases but isn't in all.
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Persons wanting to follow the official, approved SDA manner of genuflecting but need counseling on how to bow before popes and prelates (to render “proper” obeisance) should contact Dr. Bert B. Beach of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists for detailed instructions.
Is this a matter of laughter? The little smile does away with all seriousness.
I am looking for intelligent men and women with strong faith to help in the advancement of God's cause. Awake, Awake is the call that should arise, I sword is brought to battle not a soft pillow, we need not fear death or persecution but we need to arise and let our light shine. We, who have truth, have slept long enough. This will be the final message of mercy and there WILL be a people to proclaim it loud and clear.
Put away childish selfishness.
Put away unrighteousness.
Put on the armour of God and Arise to the battle.
Humilty and Patience characterize the TRUE followers of God.
Love and Grace must season every discourse.
Truth and Justice must be kept by all who claim the name of Christ.
I'm here to speak man to man.
Men are the strength of earth and it is up to us to pull the cart.
Who is with me? _________________ "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon." Isaiah 55:7
I have read some of the messages and information posted here and this is all very interesting. I see truth being brought to the forfront and new ideas being premoted.
That's what this whole ministry is about.
Eden_restoration wrote:
I also see a certain presumtion in the self apointed name "the new william miller". Is this the humility of Christ?
That's an interesting question, Christopher. Didn't the critics of Jesus accuse the Son of God of presumption and lack of humility by finding fault with the statement, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58)? Closer to home, do you believe that Ellen White was being presumptuous by telling others that God had given her dreams and visions? More importantly, isn't William Miller thought of among Adventists as a remarkable failure and just plain wrong about the centerpiece of his message, i.e., in expecting the Second Coming of Christ in 1843?
Eden_restoration wrote:
I will not step forward to judge but I would like to here the basic reasons for claiming this name.
Are you furthering the cause he set out to acomplish?
Didn't you just finish saying that you see truth being brought to the forefront on this forum and new ideas being promoted?
Eden_restoration wrote:
I've read through, and continue to read, the Bible and the writings of Ellen White. They are powerful and life changing, Ellen White does not impose on God's Word but clearify's the word and up holds it as the standard for life purity.
Do you think that adventism has a chance to repent of it's wrongs and be the final agent through which the three angels message is proclaimed?
By Adventism, I suppose that you mean the Seventh-day Adventist church as governed by its existing hierarchy. I believe that Ellen White offered very little hope for the sanctioned leaders of the Adventist church. See my compilation of Ellen White's writings on true Seventh-day Adventists in the thread The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism.
Eden_restoration wrote:
One more thing I read that gave me a bad feeling about you was you talking about the seventh-day adventists giving homage to the pope? This may be true in some cases but isn't in all.
I would say that it's true for virtually everyone in the hierarchy but not all.
Eden_restoration wrote:
Eugene Shubert wrote:
Persons wanting to follow the official, approved SDA manner of genuflecting but need counseling on how to bow before popes and prelates (to render “proper” obeisance) should contact Dr. Bert B. Beach of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists for detailed instructions.
Is this a matter of laughter? The little smile does away with all seriousness.
You were reading the forum philosophy. I certainly didn't mean that Adventists should literally call the General Conference for the necessary instructions. Recall the humor of the Lord as God Himself mocked King Ahab through the prophet Micaiah (2 Chronicles 18:18-22). Do you believe that Elijah was wrong in mocking the prophets of Baal? (1 Kings 18:25-29). Have you heard the funny joke about the Seventh-day Adventist administrator that said, "I love my job as Conference President. All I do is kiss the ring of everyone in positions above me and appoint ring-kissers to every position below me"? I say, for the willful stupidity of most Adventists living in North America that approve of and defend their leaders who are truly imitating Medieval popery with remarkable exactness, yes indeed, I do believe that Seventh-day Adventists should be laughed at.
I'm sorry for not being more clear... forgive me. I did not want to imply that you are NOT the "new william miller", I only was telling you what my feelings where from the very first look at your forum name. Right under it you declare yourself to be something that you MIGHT be, but are only claiming.
Enemy's already? Let us not fight, brother.
The "new William Miller" wrote:
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Didn't the critics of Jesus accuse the Son of God of presumption and lack of humility by finding fault with the statement, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58)?
Did I say: THIS IS NOT THE HUMILITY OF CHRIST! Or did I simply ask a question?
"And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ." (Mark 8:29) His followers were the ones who could express the faith they had in Him. God was to declare who Christ was. At His baptism the Holy Spirit and the Holy Father declared the truth of the matter.
Here is part of a post you made on ""The new William Miller" forum.
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I don't believe that William Miller would compare himself to Jesus Christ. However, the angel Gabriel did represent John the Baptist as a type of Elijah (Luke 1:17). Jesus said very plainly that John the Baptist was Elijah (Matthew 11:14).
Gabriel said it not John. Jesus said it not John. And I do agree with you, William Miller would not compare himself with Christ, but you compare yourself to Jesus when He said "I AM" (John 8:58) to when you say I AM The new William Miller.
Humility, By Ellen G. White:
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The grace of humility should be cherished by every one who names the name of Christ, for self-exaltation can find no place in the work of God. Those who would cooperate with the Lord of hosts must daily crucify self... They must be long-suffering and kind, full of mercy and tenderness to those around them. . . .
True humility is the evidence that we behold God and that we are in union with Jesus Christ. Unless we are meek and lowly we cannot claim that we have any true conception of the character of God. Men may think that they are serving God faithfully; their talents, learning, eloquence, or zeal may dazzle the eye, delight the fancy, and awaken the admiration of those who cannot see beneath the surface, but unless these qualifications are humbly consecrated to God, . . . they are regarded by God as unprofitable servants. {That I May Know Him 122.2,3}
The "new William Miller" Wrote:
Quote:
do you believe that Ellen White was being presumptuous by telling others that God had given her dreams and visions?
She was not presumptuous in her claims, her words, dreams and visions are validated by the Word of God. Did Ellen White ever claim to be a prophet or prophetess? "I have had no claims to make, only that I am instructed that I am the Lord's messenger. . . . Early in my work I was asked several times, Are you a prophet? I have ever responded, 'I am the Lord's messenger.' " (Upward Look 160.5)
The "new William Miller" Wrote:
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More importantly, isn't William Miller thought of among Adventists as a remarkable failure and just plain wrong about the centerpiece of his message, i.e., in expecting the Second Coming of Christ in 1843?
Wrong, yes he was, in that Christ did not come on the date he projected, he was mistaken concerning the event that DID take place. Right, yes he was in his study of scripture and the time prophecys he uncovered through his study. Is he a failure? NO! God had it all in place to "stir up the nest" so to speak and to sound the alarm of Christ's literal, imminent return.
Eden_ restoration wrote:
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Are you furthering the cause he set out to acomplish?
The "new William Miller" Wrote:
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Didn't you just finish saying that you see truth being brought to the forefront on this forum and new ideas being promoted?
Was that some question that could'nt have a simple "Yes" with a short explanation?
The "new William Miller" wrote:
Quote:
Persons wanting to follow the official, approved SDA manner of genuflecting but need counseling on how to bow before popes and prelates (to render “proper” obeisance) should contact Dr. Bert B. Beach of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists for detailed instructions.
And Speaking about the seventh-day adventist church giveing homage to the pope.
Quote:
I would say that it's true for virtually everyone in the hierarchy but not all.
Ninety and nine sheep are found... One is lost... Do we walk out after the one lost sheep? Do we sit back and talk and laugh about its condition? NO! Man, gird up thy loins and fight through tempest and storm, push through the thorns and mud holes, up the rocky mountians side and to the forsaken place were the poor people have fallen and raise the cry of mercy one last time so that ALL might have the CHANCE to be saved!
Does'nt it effect you? They are in trouble! They need the truth not cold censorship. Nor sarcastic jokes. What was Christ's response to Jerusalem's rejection of Him? "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Mat. 23:37) The Spirit of love in Jesus is crying out to His beloved! Is their a reflexion of Him in you?!?
Alright... Is this how forums go? Are people " ....rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing... (Rev. 3:17) I have asked a few questions and the whole Spirit of your response was that of self justification.
Do you, Eugene Shubert, know every SDA? Have you walked in their shoes? Why does Christ even give the admonition to the laodicean church "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. " (Rev. 3:20) I hear no laughter?
Eugene Shurbert wrote:
Quote:
yes indeed, I do believe that Seventh-day Adventists should be laughed at.
I am not trying to be hostile. "Let brotherly love continue." (Heb. 13:1)
But you are saying grave things, if you have more light, then you are acountable for more things. "Are my words the words that Christ would speak where He hear?" "Does my arguements express self-sacrifice or self-justification?" Prayerful and powerful is the way of the true gospel. You may have the theory but let Christ shine forth in practice.
Instruct me brother! I am willing to learn truth! If you have something that God's people need to know before the end comes... Arise, shine! _________________ "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon." Isaiah 55:7
Didn't the critics of Jesus accuse the Son of God of presumption and lack of humility by finding fault with the statement, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58)?
Did I say: THIS IS NOT THE HUMILITY OF CHRIST! Or did I simply ask a question?
It's called answering a question with a question.
Eden_restoration wrote:
Quote:
do you believe that Ellen White was being presumptuous by telling others that God had given her dreams and visions?
She was not presumptuous in her claims, her words, dreams and visions are validated by the Word of God.
Me too. The Word of God validates my words, dreams and visions.
Eden_restoration wrote:
Does'nt it effect you? They are in trouble! They need the truth not cold censorship.
The truth they need is expressed by Jesus to the church of Laodicean. In short, of all the churches, they rank at the very bottom and they make Christ want to vomit them out of His mouth.
Eden_restoration wrote:
Nor sarcastic jokes. ... Is their a reflexion of Him in you?!?
Yes. Just reading your reply this minute makes me want to hurl.
Eden_restoration wrote:
Instruct me brother! I am willing to learn truth!
Perhaps you would be impressed by the testimony of another Adventist like yourself. I believe that God gave Steve Starman a remarkable dream that vindicates me:
The truth they need is expressed by Jesus to the church of Laodicean. In short, of all the churches, they rank at the very bottom and they make Christ want to vomit them out of His mouth.
"But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick." (Mat. 9:12)
Eugene Shurbert Said to Christopher.
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Yes. Just reading your reply this minute makes me want to hurl.
What part? That Christ has love for His church?
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Perhaps you would be impressed by the testimony of another Adventist like yourself. I believe that God gave Steve Starman a remarkable dream that vindicates me:
I have read it. I do not doubt that the SDA church is terribly back slidden as Israel of old. What is our (the ones who see there error) duty to those still in the church? Create a new denomination founded on RIGHT principles?
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You will take passages in the Testimonies that speak of the close of probation, of the shaking among God's people, and you will talk of a coming out from this people of a purer, holier people that will arise. Now all this pleases the enemy. . . . Should many accept the views you advance, and talk and act upon them, we would see one of the greatest fanatical excitements that has ever been witnessed among Seventh-day Adventists. This is what Satan wants.--1SM 179 (1890).
The Lord has not given you a message to call the Seventh-day Adventists Babylon, and to call the people of God to come out of her. All the reasons you may present cannot have weight with me on this subject, because the Lord has given me decided light that is opposed to such a message. . . .
I know that the Lord loves His church. It is not to be disorganized or broken up into independent atoms. There is not the least consistency in this; there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be.--2SM 63, 68, 69 (1893). {Last Day Events 51.1,2,3}
If makeing another denomination is not the case. Then what do we do?
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Has God no living church? He has a church, but it is the church militant, not the church triumphant. We are sorry that there are defective members, that there are tares amid the wheat. . . . Although there are evils existing in the church, and will be until the end of the world, the church in these last days is to be the light of the world that is polluted and demoralized by sin. The church, enfeebled and defective, needing to be reproved, warned, and counseled, is the only object upon earth upon which Christ bestows His supreme regard.--TM 45, 49 (1893). {Last Day Events 52.2}
WE are to Awake, though all else sleep. WE are to cry aloud, though all else are silent. WE must do our part and the Lord will do His. Will this approach fail?
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The bulwarks of Satan will never triumph. Victory will attend the third angel's message. As the Captain of the Lord's host tore down the walls of Jericho, so will the Lord's commandment-keeping people triumph, and all opposing elements be defeated.--TM 410 (1898). {Last Day Events 52.3}
Censorship is good if it proceeds from love, but it damages intensly if it is from haste or unfeeling anger. Prayer and effort. This is our portion as "the Lord's commandment-keeping people"
Please take a few moments to tell me what exactly you think you believe differently then me so we can see eye to eye. _________________ "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon." Isaiah 55:7
Matthew 9:9
As Jesus passed on from there, He saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, “Follow Me.” So he arose and followed Him.
10 Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
There are many parallels between Laodiceans and Pharisees in the writings of Ellen G. White. Overwhelmingly, Ellen White applies the traits, position and character of both Laodiceans and Pharisees to Seventh-day Adventists. Jesus is saying very clearly in Matthew 9:9-13 that the self-righteous feel no need of salvation. In terms of pride and blind arrogance they are just like Laodicean Seventh-day Adventists. "The Pharisees thought themselves too wise to need instruction, too righteous to need salvation, too highly honored to need the honor that comes from Christ."
Eden_restoration wrote:
Eugene Shubert wrote:
Just reading your reply this minute makes me want to hurl.
What part? That Christ has love for His church?
Just being reminded of the pharisaical belief that SDA church membership constitutes righteousness makes me want to hurl.
Eden_restoration wrote:
What is our ... duty to those still in the church?
If makeing another denomination is not the case. Then what do we do?
Didn't you say that you believe in the inspiration of Ellen White? Sister White was very clear in pinpointing what the message to the Laodicean church is all about. I have already given you a direct link to a superb overview. Didn't you recognize Sister White's answer to your question?
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The church, enfeebled and defective, needing to be reproved, warned, and counseled
And how are you reproving them, warning them, and counseling them?
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WE are to cry aloud
Does that mean just cry and make a lot of noise with a message devised from the sparks of your own kindling or to be courageous and uncompromising with a very clear message that God approves?
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The bulwarks of Satan will never triumph. Victory will attend the third angel's message
That excludes the Seventh-day Adventist leadership from attaining any victory because they rely on Satan's methods. [1][2]. The contrast between them and me is that I teach all three angel messages with sincerity and understanding. [3][4][5].
Eden_restoration wrote:
Please take a few moments to tell me what exactly you think you believe differently then me so we can see eye to eye.
Obviously you believe that you are spiritual enough and sufficiently enlightened to understand the endtime message, to instruct others and to judge new light. I wholeheartedly disagree with all three of your estimates.
And how are you reproving them, warning them, and counseling them?
I've been learning and studying as much as possible to no what IS Truth so that I can express it plainly to all that will hear. I am writing a booklet about "The Path to Everlasting Life." and I hope and pray that it will affect people for good so that they might come and know the True and Liveing GOD. If you would like to read it I could send it to you by e-mail, its only about 30 pages long but most of the font size is 10 or 12 so its kind of packed, it would probly be an eazy read. I am an artist aswell and I draw symbolic pictures depicting important truths. If you would like I could send some to you aswell. I am a musician and I try to combine music with nature so humanity can reflect on the creator of the heavens and the earth.
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Does that mean just cry and make a lot of noise with a message devised from the sparks of your own kindling or to be courageous and uncompromising with a very clear message that God approves?
I Pray that God will help me to be courageous and uncompromising with a very clear message that He approves.
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Obviously you believe that you are spiritual enough and sufficiently enlightened to understand the endtime message, to instruct others and to judge new light.
If there is one thing that I know without a doubt its that "Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honour is humility." (Proverbs 18:12) If I have been haughty I am sorry I do not want to be self righteous because Christ cannot live in such a heart, all wisdom will wither. "The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." (Psalms 34:18) "By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life." (Proverbs 22:4)
Humility and Patience are the growth of my spiritual life.
If I have disrepected you I apologize. I know it is the case that as soon as someone feels that someone else has done them wrong or has miss construe'd their actions they get on the defensive, and then the other get's on the offensive, and it truely escalates into un-Christ like words and actions. No humility or brotherly love is displayed untell someone sacrifices self.
I want to disclose the "cry" that ascends from my heart to God.
"Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily. Rejoice the soul of thy servant: for unto thee, O Lord, do I lift up my soul. For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee." (Psalms 86:3-5)
"Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast." (57:1) _________________ "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon." Isaiah 55:7
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