Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:51 am Post subject: Nature of marriage
Hello all, I'm new here, and this question has been troubling me for some time. It is my opinion that marriage is a spiritual condition of which sex is the physical manifestation. I have spoken with clergy, parents, etc., and all seem to think that marriage is a piece of paper that you need to go buy from the state, I disagree, and think that that is a terrible way to look at it. Now, I will say that I believe it important to express your commitment in the presence of witnesses, preferably a priest or other clergyman, you know the usual wedding ceremony, but that it is definitely not necessary in order to be married in the sight of God. My reasoning for this is that Adam and Eve were married, by who? Where did they buy their marriage liscense/certificate? If God is unchanging, how could they be married without these things, but it be neccessary for us to have them?
the way i understand it is marriage from Gods point of view is when two flesh become one also i was told that sex was not only for reproduction but to help maintain intimacy in a relationship i think this is somewere in the bible but i could be wrong so dont take my word for it
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:27 am Post subject: Well, yes, I agree
I would agree with that statement, however, the point I was driving at is that sex=marriage. I believe that, scripturally, having sex with someone creates a binding covenant, a covenant we know as marriage.
Hello, I'm also new here, but I'm willing to engage in some discussion if you are....
As far as sex=marriage goes, I agree that having sex with someone carries a significant responsibility and commitment to the other person (which is largely ignored by society today, unfortunately). I do NOT agree that having had sex with someone either "makes you married" or requires you to marry that person.
As someone who is will be celebrating 5 years of wonderful marriage tomorrow, I believe that marriage, the way God intended it, is the emotional, spiritual, and physical union between two people. There is soooo much more to marriage than sex, although it's important.
I agree with you that marriage is NOT just a piece of paper. I believe that although a proper marriage ceremony is important, the ceremony is SYMBOLIC of the commitment that man and woman are making to each other, and the ceremony is not required in the eyes of God (or the man and woman). If my wife and I had met as the only two people on a deserted island, I'd still consider us married.
Hope I've contributed in some meaningful way to this discussion....
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:17 pm Post subject: hrm
I would agree that a proper marriage entails a very definite mental, spiritual, and emional connection. However, having sex and not intending to commit is like signing a contract without reading it first. Sex is like your signature, it is what seals the contract, while the commitment should be what it is based on. Sex is not the be all and end all of marriage (or at least it should not be), but it does create a lasting covenant.
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:43 am Post subject: Re: hrm
truthseeker wrote:
However, having sex and not intending to commit is like signing a contract without reading it first. Sex is like your signature, it is what seals the contract, while the commitment should be what it is based on. Sex is not the be all and end all of marriage (or at least it should not be), but it does create a lasting covenant.
Well, truthseeker, to use your analogy, I actually don't believe that sex is would be the signing of the contract, but actually one of the benefits that the contract provides. The contract (the commitment of marriage) provides many benefits and responsibilities, of which sex is one. I suspect that the signing would be the actual making of the commitment to one another, which could be with witnesses (a normal marriage ceremony), or without.
Sex can cause a lasting covenant (i.e. if a child is conceived), but it doesn't necessarily imply that covenant has been made. Please note that I'm neither condemning nor condoning pre-marital sex, just looking at the logic of the situation.
An interesting discussion. Certainly we are not told much about wedding ceremonies in Bible times. The closest we come in the new testament is a description of a story about a marriage feast. It is clear that by New Testament times the people of Israel observed fairly ritualized ceremonies. In Old Testament times it is not exactly clear. But certainly in both is placed a high emphasis on the sexual union, not as the only important part of marriage, but as a sealing of the marriage vow.
For instance we often see statements combining sexual references to the commencing of marriage. Often times these take the form of a brief sentance such as "brought her into the tent". There may have been some ceremony but the retreating of the couple into the tent was considered to be the time when the marriage was begun.
A couple of examples....
Quote:
Genesis 24:67 Isaac brought her into the tent of his mother Sarah, and he married Rebekah. So she became his wife, and he loved her; and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death.
Quote:
GE 29:22 So Laban brought together all the people of the place and gave a feast. 23 But when evening came, he took his daughter Leah and gave her to Jacob, and Jacob lay with her. 24 And Laban gave his servant girl Zilpah to his daughter as her maidservant.
It sounds a bit odd, but this was partly because fornication was much more rare, and much less acceptable. In fact there were regulations to follow if a man suspected that his new wife had some uncleaness about her...ie...there was evidence that she had been with someone else. I won't go into the particulars, but I am sure you can work that out.
Since there was little fornication, and adultery etc. was punishable by death it was probaby much more common for people to have sex with only one person--their wife.
The sexual relationship is a picture of the one flesh reality in marriage. In fact the most interesting text on this subject addresses this connection that sex brings about.
Quote:
1CO 6:12 "Everything is permissible for me"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"--but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 "Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"--but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." 17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
Paul is speaking to the Corinthian church, one that struggles with sexual immorality. Many of them came out of fornication, homosexuality. shrine prostitution etc. So the first letter to the Corinthians is probably the most straight forward in dealing with sexual sin, God's ideal for sex in marriage, etc.
Apparently Paul is writing in response to some of the things that the Corinthians were saying. The first is "Everything is permissible for me" In other words...There is nothing wrong with sex whenever, with whoever. Now this sounds and odd thing for them to think in the Christian faith, and in fact many of them had previously forsaken their sinful practices. But we see that they had been lately influenced by some smooth talking false teachers which Paul addresses in both First and Second Corinthians. They had been teaching what appears to be an early form of the heresy Gnosticism which said that the body is not important, but that it is knowledge and the non physical soul which was important. We see various forms of pre-gnostic thought in several Bible books. And it tends to take two very different forms or strains. In some of the cases they said that the body is not important, so you should repress the body by humiliating it and being very strict. This would allow the mind to take ascendency. The other strain said that the body is not important, so do what you want with it. It appears that this latter strain was taught by the Corinthian false teachers. Paul says that everything is permissible, but what they were really doing was being mastered by sin, slaves to Satan.
The second phrase seems even more confusing but has the same meaning : "Food for the stomach and stomach for the food." In other words...just as the stomach was made to eat, our sexual organs were made for sex. So...why not do it? Paul says that yes the organs were made for sex but if you violate God's laws then you and your organs will be destroyed!
Verses 15-16 are the most critical here. They say that we should not unite ourselves with prostitutes because we are united to Christ. Now Paul's argument here is that whoever you are united with through sex you are one with in flesh. This is hearkening directly back to the Garden words of becoming one flesh. Obviously Paul saw the physical union in sex as an integral part of that one flesh union.
Paul apparently sees no problem with uniting Christ to a Christian spouse, ie...nothing wrong with married sex, but for a Christian to unite themselves to someone other than their spouse is to unite Christ to a prostitute, fornicator, etc. He goes on to remind them of God's ownership of their whole being.
Quote:
v. 19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
Having covered sexual immorality, he now goes on to speak of God's plan for the proper practice within marriage, and gives advice for singles.
Apparently some asked if it was good not to marry. Paul himself was single for the sake of the gospel and so he said that it is often better--but not everyone can do it. In fact he said that his singleness was a spiritual gift. Some would not be able to overcome in their struggle with sexuality without a viable outlet through marriage. This shows that sex is not meant to be just for procreation. In fact he goes on to say....
Quote:
It is good for a man not to marry. 2 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
Here we see that it is a safeguard against immorality for a couple to have frequent intercourse. Not only that but in verse 5 he says not to deprive each other except for mutually agreed on times of prayer. God commands married people to have sex! In fact he says that to deprive each other when married is actually a LACK of self control, because you put your spouse in a situation where they could be more easily tempted. Therefore we see that Paul saw that the practices of using sex as a bargaining tool ,or viewing it as unclean somehow between husband and wife was not what God intended.
Having said that, before you husbands go running off to show your wife your new favorite Bible verse, (or vice versa) you have to realize that in sex as with any other aspect of marriage, the advice in Ephesians 5 still applies. Husbands should love their wives as Christ loved the church, giving himself up for her. So don't FORCE your wife to have sex just to gratify physical craving. But foster a good marriage both emotionally and sexually and both will WANT to express the one flesh union often.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in
