A Forum for Everything Important    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Is it morally right to speak the truth to 7th-day Adventists           Forum Index -> Mount Carmel View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Eugene Shubert teacher, evangelist Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 562 Location: Richardson Texas Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:06 am    Post subject: Is it morally right to speak the truth to 7th-day Adventists Is it morally right to speak the truth to Seventh-day Adventists? This question is more complex than it seems. What if the truth is something that challenges the collective self-righteousness of SDAs, just like what their forefather’s couldn’t tolerate in Luke 4:14-30? (You should notice that, in the historical incident accurately reported by Luke, Jesus thought it was necessary to speak unwelcome truth even though there would be a severe backlash against him for doing so). I will be more precise. Here is the exact reason for this thread topic. There are many Seventh-day Adventists who argue that they have a right to not hear anything from God and to not be challenged by a call to duty, the gospel or anything else, if that call is through a human agent not of their own choosing. The truth is that an unbeliever may claim this right but a Seventh-day Adventist never can. Does anyone have any doubts about this? Back to top   '); //--> narscissa hopefully saved by grace Joined: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 19 Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: It is morally right to speak the truth to 7th-day Advent Eugene Shubert wrote: The truth is that an unbeliever may claim this right but a Seventh-day Adventist never can. Does anyone have any doubts about this? What do you mean by this. Explain please? Im curious. Back to top   '); //--> Eugene Shubert teacher, evangelist Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 562 Location: Richardson Texas Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:48 pm    Post subject: I didn't mean to put these two sentences in separate paragraphs. It's one connected thought. Quote: There are many Seventh-day Adventists who argue that they have a right to not hear anything from God and to not be challenged by a call to duty, the gospel or anything else, if that call is through a human agent not of their own choosing. The truth is that an unbeliever may claim this right but a Seventh-day Adventist never can. Back to top   '); //--> narscissa hopefully saved by grace Joined: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 19 Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 8:20 am    Post subject: OK but I'm still not sure I get it. Are you being sarcastic to make a point or is it really true (literally I mean) that for an SDA this is not a choice? My opinion is this: I agree with your statement here: Quote: There are many Seventh-day Adventists who argue that they have a right to not hear anything from God and to not be challenged by a call to duty, the gospel or anything else, if that call is through a human agent not of their own choosing. But to me, this is not a problem only with SDAs. It is a problem with everyone -- in all walks of life and in all ways of understanding "the truth" (whether it is what the Bible would consider "the truth" or not) and that includes even people who point out that it is a problem because those people exempt themselves from it, of course. (That statement is not directed at you personally -- I'm new here, don't even know you -- that statement is from my encounters with other people in a variety of walks of life in general!!) Basically, if the human agent does not appeal to the listener, they will not listen. And ANYTHING can make the human agent unappealing -- "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" after all. You could be too fat, or too short, or not eloquent enough. You could be too poor, not well enough dressed, not refined enough in mannerisms. You could be too female in the midst of an "only males have the right to this area of life" mindset. All of these things may or may not be your fault as the messenger, but one thing is certain: the real crux of the matter could simply be that you speak too much Truth ... and all the rest is just a convenient and stupid excuse for blowing you off. (Been there, done that ... or rather, had it done to me ... way too many times to count.) So sometimes it might be a matter of what nietzsche said, about knowing your audience, knowing who they are, and finding them. ~n. Back to top   '); //--> Eugene Shubert teacher, evangelist Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 562 Location: Richardson Texas Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:15 pm    Post subject: narscissa wrote: This is not a problem only with SDAs. It is a problem with everyone. You are so right about this dismal state of mind being a common human problem. I wish I knew the words that could highlight the issue. I think it's important. If I had the ability, I would increase the awareness and understanding of this dismal condition in society. I don't understand why the subject is avoided. This problem is so prevalent and so critical yet I never hear of it being talked about in any meaningful way. The point I was alluding to about SDAs is that Ellen G. White (the Adventist prophet) wrote repeatedly about this threat to Adventists and their perilous position. See: Instances in the writings of Ellen G. White where Ellen White implores Seventh-day Adventists to not be just like the Jews at the time of Christ but that they are anyway. Back to top   '); //--> narscissa hopefully saved by grace Joined: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 19 Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:49 pm    Post subject: Not only that but this phenomenon is no longer confined to matters of spirituality or religion, to matters of one's beliefs about Life, God, Destiny, The Universe & Everything but it is spilling out and manifesting all around us, most notably in the socio-political spectrum of our current era. This quote: Quote: "When a doctrine is presented that does not meet our minds, we should go to the word of God, seek the Lord in prayer, and give no place for the enemy to come in with suspicion and prejudice. We should never permit the spirit to be manifested that arraigned the priests and rulers against the Redeemer of the world. They complained that He disturbed the people, and they wished He would let them alone; for He caused perplexity and dissension. The Lord sends light to us to prove what manner of spirit we are of. We are not to deceive ourselves." GW 301-302. made me think of nothing so much as the current problem we face in trying to do nothing more complicated than merely speak the truth about the present ruler in this land and the real agendas of his administration and their effects on us as a people and America as a nation. This is a tremendous problem right now and it is precisely being carried out exactly word for word in this particular arena as EGW wrote in the quote above. Yes, I realize she meant that as indicative of church & spiritual matters, but it is literally true about our socio-political situation of the past 3 years. Those who want to put their heads in the sand and have a big salty old fatcat feelgood field day are reacting exactly this way to anything that questions their blatant, bald-faced (insultingly so) and continual lies and spin. Back to top   '); //--> CTC Site Admin Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 79 Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:31 pm    Post subject: narscissa, If you have a political theory you'd like to share, I'd like to read it. Could you start a thread with a concise thesis statement in the Town Hall forum? Back to top   '); //--> narscissa hopefully saved by grace Joined: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 19 Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:46 am    Post subject: I'll be glad to -- as soon as I figure out where, in fact, to even begin!! There are so many things that need addressing, and I'm not very good at organizing humongous splotches of thought that bleed over into other humongous splotches of thought that each contain billions of very intricate sub-threads of their own! Back to top   '); //--> CTC Site Admin Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 79 Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:35 am    Post subject: The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step “The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.” Long essays are sent to the jail forum. To start a thread, you only need to post a single coherent thought. A general statement, if it’s interesting, will invite readers to interrogate you for additional details. Pick a sensible direction. All of your wisdom that you wish to share should flow out of ordinary conversation. 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