HOW EQUAL IS JESUS TO GOD?

gillespie9669 · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:41 am Post subject: HOW EQUAL IS JESUS TO GOD?

I have been liking the posts under this thread so far, and since TALKING OF JESUS IS MY FAVORITE SUBJECT, then I must share my views on the matter of how some Adventists get confused over the issue of Jesus being equal with the Father. I will start by quoting the most respected testimony in Adventism.

IS JESUS GOD IN THE LIMITED SENSE?

“Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore. The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by Him as His right”. –E.G White, Review and Herald, April, 1906

From the foregoing quote, representing true Adventism (after its formative years of doctrinal uncertainty in some matters), it is clear that Jesus is supposed to be seen (by true adherents to the Adventist heritage) as “God [capitalized] in the HIGHEST SENSE”. Why? The same quote furnishes the simple answer:

He is –
1. God essentially (by nature)
2. God [supreme] over all [like the Father]
3. Existed from eternity [all eternity] as a distinct person [just like the Father, as “I AM”]]
4. Homage [highest worship] is His right by being one with the Father [i.e. equal with Him as His Divine Son]

Thus, anywhere you find ‘representatives’ of the Adventist heritage saying Jesus is God in the “limited sense”, simply because He is not the Person of the Father, such is representing a heretical view of Adventism, because this restricted view, found (admittedly) in early Adventism was expunged from it’s teachings by Adventism’s main pioneer, Mrs. E.G. White.
To illustrate why Jesus is God in the highest sense, despite Jesus Himself recognized (only as a Man) that the Father became His God, and became greater than He by virtue of His incarnation, let us look at the nature of man. Remember, only after Jesus became man can he be quoted calling the Father His “God” (thus worshipping Him as a Man, like his “brethren”- Heb. 2:11, 12), and only as a Man was Jesus made lower than even the angels. He has since returned to his glory, but by virtue of His RETAINED HUMANITY, He will, in that sense only, have the Father being greater than He was. However “if He lacked one iota of being [always] EQUAL with the Father” (said E.J. Waggoner of Adventism, 1888) He could not be called “God in the highest sense”, or “Jehovah, the self- existent One” (as Waggoner also said), as the begotten Son of God!!! Thus time would be wasted debating that aspect of the matter, since it is very obvious. Now moving on to the illustration.
When God made man how many men were first created? Only one! Adam. However, you will realize very quickly that Eve (the female) was also recognized as constituting “man”, “mankind”, or “humanity” (Gen. 5:1, 2), despite coming from Adam (the male). So how many persons of “man” first existed after creation was completed? Two!! How many men (male persons)? One! How many ‘humanities’? One! No other human specie existed, even today (with billions of persons) it remains so.
Was humanity only the male? No? Was Eve called “man” (human) in the highest sense? Yes! Was she a man (male gender)? Clearly No! Why? Because she was not the person of Adam (the male)! Was she inferior to Adam (the male)? No! Because they were both of one (like) substance!
Was she led by Adam! Clearly yes! Did this diminish her humanity? No!
The same rule in principle (as the foregoing) is true when applied to divinity! Jesus is clearly not the person of the Father, but is TRULY “God in the highest sense”, since TO BE GOD IN THE HIGHEST SENSE DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT JESUS BE THE FATHER IN PERSON. This is quite similar to saying, that the female is truly man (human) in the highest sense, despite not being the person of a male (gender). Jesus is also not “a god”, but “God” [capitalized] because “there is only one God, the Father, and one Lord Jesus Christ” (with Jesus being also called “my Lord and my God”- John 20:28, 29). So many like to leave out the last part of 1 Cor. 8:6!! I will not!!
Eve was not a man (in gender), however, “man”(THE SPECIE) was Adam primarily, but along with Eve, as one existence, one being; NOT that both are “a being” or one person- e.g. Acts 17:28. Please see the dictionary for the various uses of the word “being”. That should clear up many misconceptions as to its usage. The two (Adam and Eve) then combined producing a third human person, Cain, who was still called, and was now a part of “man” (humanity). Can you see why man’s nature is the “image” of God, the Godhead, or divinity?
Now, IN LIGHT OF THAT RULE, that is precisely why Mrs. White further declared about “our personal God”:

“The existence of a personal God, [now notice carefully] THE UNITY OF CHRIST WITH HIS FATHER, lies at the foundation of all true science”
–E.G. White, The Upward Look (Morning Watch Comm.), 1982, pg. 316

Interestingly, Adventist pioneer, Uriah Smith admitted in 1898 that:

[The] "union between the Father and Son does not detract from
either, but strengthens both. Through it [this union],
IN CONNECTION WITH [and not excluding] THE HOLY SPIRIT
we have ALL OF DEITY"
Uriah Smith, Looking Unto Jesus, Review and Herald, 1898, pg. 17

THUS IT IS AN UNAVOIDABLE FACT THAT TO PROPERLY CONSIDER THE DEITY THIS “UNITY” OF DIVINE PERSONALITIES IS INSEPARABLE!!
With that now established, and WITHOUT DEBATING WHETHER A “TRINITY”, OR “TRIO” IS THE BIBLICAL VIEW TO ADOPT WHEN CONSIDERING THE DEITY, let us compare the teachings of one INDEPENDENT group, The Smyrna Gospel Ministries, seeking to represent the true Adventist heritage (i.e. after its formative years, but during the E.G White’s life) on the TRUE DIVINITY OF CHRIST. The following is directly quoted from their Present Truth magazine. Now, judge for yourself who is being fully truthful, fully Biblical, and fully supportive of Mrs. White’s writings in Adventism.
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Questions and Answers
by Lynnford Beachy (Present Truth, August, 2003, at www. present-truth.net)

Question: Do you have two Gods?

“Since both the Father and Jesus are called God in Scripture several times, how do you answer from the Scripture if someone says: ‘Well then, you have two Gods’?”
Tennessee

Answer:

“This is an excellent question, and filled with far reaching implications.
In the Bible, the word “god” has several different meanings. In a limited sense, men are called gods. Both the Greek word theos and the Hebrew word elohim, which are most often translated “god” are used in reference to men. (See Exodus 7:1; Psalm 82:6; John 10:34) When the word “god” is used in that sense, then there are hundreds and thousands of gods.
In a more limited sense, angels are called gods. David wrote about man, “For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels [elohim].” (Psalms 8:5) The word “angels” in this verse comes from the Hebrew word elohim. The way elohim is used here it denotes a type of being that is higher than man but, it is still used in a limited sense, and with this definition there would still be many gods.
The Bible says, “To us there is but one God, the Father.” (1 Corinthians 8:6) So, to us Christians, there is only one God, the Father. If Jesus was exactly like the Father in every respect, then we would have two Gods, but He is not. Let me explain. In reference to Christ, the word “god” is used in a much more limited sense, to denote His nature as being on the same level as His Father—something that cannot be said about any other being in the universe. The Bible says that Christ was “in the form of God.” (Philippians 2:6)
But even when the word “god” is used of Christ, it is used in a limited sense, because Christ has a God who is “the head of Christ,” “above all,” and “greater than” He. (1 Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 4:6; and John 14:28) When the word “god” is used in its absolute and unlimited [highest] sense, there is only one person to whom it can apply, and that is God, the Father, alone. Jesus said that His Father is “the only true God.” (John 17:3) Paul said, “there is none other God but one… God, the Father.” (1 Corinthians 8:4, 6) Of the 1,354 times the word “god” is used in the New Testament, more than 99% of the time it refers exclusively to God, the Father, while it only applies to His Son four times. (John 1:1; John 20:28; Hebrews 1:8; 1 Timothy 3:16)
So, to clarify, there are many gods when the word “god” is used in a limited sense, to include men and angels. When the word “god” is used as an adjective to describe the nature of God, as in John 1:1, then there are only two divine beings, God, the Father, and Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son. The Son of God is completely divine by nature because His Father is divine [*MY INSERT-yet He is not God in the highest sense?], just as I am completely human, because my parents are human.
When the word “God” is used in its absolute sense, to denote “the most high God,” “the sovereign of the universe,” or “the only true God,” then there is only one God; God, the Father, beside which there is no god.
I hope this helps to answer your question.”
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Closing Thoughts-
NOW GO BACK TO THE OPENING E.G WHITE QUOTE AND COMPARE MY EXPLANATION WITH BEACHY'S. I CAN ONLY SAY ABOUT MY DISCOURSE, AND BEACHY'S, THAT:

“TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY, IF THEY SPEAK NOT ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM” –Isaiah 8:20
YOU BE THE FINAL JUDGE!! -Derrick Gillespie (Mr.)
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Derrick Gillespie (First labelled "SDA", THEN, "Pseudo-SDA", and then "Impolite". What label next?)