The Confessing Seventh-day Adventist

My reply to Steve Starman's dream

Dear Steve and other brethren,

Many years ago I examined the Bible in an attempt to get some degree of a grip on it when, to my great surprise, I saw the words "All is by faith by Grace." How amazing. "What is faith, and where do you get your hands on it, and what disqualifies you if you get it wrong?"

Well I found another part which said, "Faith is the title deed, the evidence of things not seen." How even more amazing. Then I found a part which said, "Whatever is not of faith, is sin." "Faith comes from hearing the Word of God."

So we come to the day and hour of Jesus' coming. At this point I could become very ruthless but I am persuaded that it isn't Jesus' way, so I will desist.

The S.O.P. specifically mentions "God's voice" announcing that good news so loudly that the saints can hear it while the ungodly only hear thunder.

I don't recall anything about spinning cylinders with numbers on them or even roulette wheels, but I am aware that at this time satan will be going out to deceive the very elect - if it was possible - by performing all manner of magic tricks.

Now be careful what people tell you. If someone comes claiming to have "Undeniable proof" of something, ask them if they have ever heard of proof that was deniable?

You see, that expression is known as a tautology it indicates a mind which is uneducated or unaware. It is the same as a "free gift." The very word "proof" indicates that it is undeniable since any proof which is deniable is simply not proof at all. Similarly, any gift which is not free, is not a gift at all. A tautology is deliberately used to over-power the mind so that the information can be driven home against the will. It is, in short, evil.

It was by a very few words that satan deceived Eve and destroyed the beautiful creation of God and the wonderful life of His creatures.

It is by the use of remarkably few words that lawyers tangle up defendents and the judges in a law court.

It was by the use of very few words at the GC that permitted the sly Baptist minister Martin, to destroy the investigative judgement of the S.D.A. Church.

The S.O.P. specifically states that, if we are not close readers of the Bible our doctrines will be destroyed by the wordly men of the world. In 1955 we saw that very thing happen when worldly wise ministers from the fallen churches launched an attack on our glorious church when it was being defended by men who were really just big girls blouses.

The reasons for strange dreams are many but the principle point is to always be alert to over-valued ideas.

This has been placed here in the hope that it may help. It is not here to criticise anyone. Anyone who wants to learn of the unfortunate things occuring at the G.C. needs only to click onto http://www.sdadefend after putting on your tin hat.
Sincerely,
R.R. Pollock

G'day , Ross!

I read your post responding to this dream with interest. I appreciate your response, and your zeal. I also am glad that you didn't use a "very ruthless" tact, as you are correct in that it is not God's way at all.

Ross wrote:So we come to the day and hour of Jesus' coming. At this point I could become very ruthless but I am persuaded that it isn't Jesus' way, so I will desist.

The S.O.P. specifically mentions "God's voice" announcing that good news so loudly that the saints can hear it while the ungodly only hear thunder.

I don't recall anything about spinning cylinders with numbers on them or even roulette wheels, but I am aware that at this time satan will be going out to deceive the very elect - if it was possible - by performing all manner of magic tricks.

I am very familiar to the reference to Ellen White's writings regarding this momentous event, and believe that this will indeed be the way that the future unfolds. That will be one wonderful, terrible day!

I want to reassure you that I in no way believe that I now know the day or the hour of the coming of our Lord and Savior. Only the Father knows that, as you well know--until the day He reveals it to His Son, Jesus Christ. What I experienced in the dream, was that I indeed did see the day--displayed clearly and for quite some time, but I could not physically speak the words, I could not remember them after I awoke from the dream, and I can not recall them now.

Did you read the experience that I had last Sabbath, October 2nd? Here are the relevant portions for this discussion:

Steve Starman wrote: I need to report an extraordinary incident that happened just today, Sabbath. Last night, I met for the first time, my wife's uncle Bob: a SDA from Missouri. Today, we were scheduled to visit the ocean (they are here for a short vacation), but poor weather changed those plans. Instead, we had Sabbath dinner with them after they visited our church, and then my wife and I took a walk with he and his wife. (Coincidentally, we began a study of the book of Daniel for today's Sabbath school, which Bob and his wife also attended.) During that walk, we began talking about the study that we had of Daniel. Per my new job description of 'investigative reporter' (see above) I was thinking about mentioning some of my recent Biblical and prophetic adventures. The conversation was going very well, and I decided that I would be frank about my convictions and understandings of late. Bob and his wife received them very well. I outlined, very simply, the Biblical points in the past where Christ indeed could have come, and gave the basic thesis of multiple prophetic scenarios. I told them about my dream, and how it related to this topic, in very broad strokes. I ended my description of the dream by saying that "I saw the date of Jesus' coming--but I couldn't get the words of the date out of my mouth." (Or something very close to that--but that's all the description I gave.) Bob stopped me in mid-sentence, and said "I've got something I need to tell you." What I will now relate is spine tingling to me...

Bob's story: In 1966, Bob was in the U.S. military, stationed near Yokahama, Japan. He was 22 years old at that time, and was very recently baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist church, converting from the Moravian church--where his dad was (or had been) a pastor. About the time of his baptism He was studying the Bible's Daniel and the Revelation very intently, and also the books: Daniel and the Revelation by Uriah Smith, and The Great Controversy by E.G. White. At this time he had a dream. He had a friend also in the military that was a SDA. Here is his dream, as best he can remember it (38 years ago and he still remembers!): As it began, he was standing on a high place. It was flat, and he was standing in the center of a circularly arranged grouping of tall pillars. Standing at his right side, there was a tall angel, who directed his attention to an object just in front of him. There, just before him, he saw a cylindrical horizontal object, maybe a foot long, with spinning numbers. (At about this time I began flipping out, but didn't let on why...) He watched the numbers spinning by, and described it as "time was passing by with the numbers" as he watched. Then the numbers stopped spinning, displaying a number--I don't believe that he knew with certainty that it was a date. He believes that the angel then said: "There is a determined time..." He then turned slightly toward the angel and distinctly remembers asking him "Is there a determined time for everything?" At this point, he awoke. I interviewed Bob at some length about the object that he saw--its size, description, location--everything. It was exactly the same object that I saw in my dream. The angel even interpreted it for him!!! He gave me sufficient description of the object and its location, form, action, etc before I told him about my dream's details. There was absolutely no way for him to fabricate the story, but, even then, I stopped him and asked his wife if he had told her the story before. She said that he had, many years ago. The only other person he told about the dream was his friend in the military. Bob said that his friend seemed to be quite alarmed by it, and believed it very significant--but Bob said he didn't understand it at all, and never has thought much about it since--until now! I was, and am, absolutely stunned and overwhelmed. Praise the living God!

Ross, I believe that God provided this meeting with a fellow SDA brother for a reason. For one, it provides a proper Biblical basis for judgment of matters among the people of God: "But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." (Mt 18:16, KJV). Cf 2 Cor 13:9, KJV: "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." These are only a small sampling of all that Scripture states on this point.

So, let's look at the details: a gentleman, also a SDA brother, has a dream in 1966. At the time, he is studying for his first time the prophetic books of Daniel and Revelation, and also The Great Controversy, et al. These life-altering words are drawing him away from the world, and showing him God's plan for bringing about His Kingdom. In the dream, he is at a lofty place, surrounded by the tall "pillars" (the strong, protective, lofty truths of God's kingdom?), with a strong angel at his right side, and he envisions exactly the same object (to which the angel directs his attention), in the same spatial placement, doing the same things as I saw in my dream. He had no understanding of the dream--but he told his wife and a few close friends and left it at that.

My circumstances when I had the dream were similar: I had set my face to understand those books of prophecy, so that I could warn two of my best friends, through Biblical study, to escape from this world's coming judgments--by knowing the Master and His ways.

With God as my witness, I never spoke to the man before in my life, and never told anyone the details of my dream except on this Forum and to a few close friends. He lives more than half a country away, and does not spend any time online in any religious web sites. He stood before me and described exactly what I saw in the dream, before I told him details about mine.

Therefore, you are correct. The only plausible explanations of this experience are these:

1) The message is supernatural, and Satanic . That would mean that 38 years ago, in response to a man fleeing from him--and into the arms of God--he (Satan) gave a very specific dream to a man; because he (Satan) knew that in 38 years, in response to another man--a nobody--determining to know God's will concerning the time of the end through the Bible, needed to be deceived. That would mean that Satan knew in advance: that my wife would be born (she wasn't when he had the dream); that she (Bob's niece) would some day marry me; that on exactly October 2, 2004 Bob and I would have a conversation; and he knew in advance exactly what we would discuss. I'm sure that the statistical improbabilities of the thousands of life-events required to do this approach infinity... Satan is not like the God of Heaven who knows the end from the beginning, my friend.

2) The message is supernatural, and from the Lord God Himself. Does God respond to those pleading and striving for light--especially to reach others with Bible truth--with darkness, falsehood, and Satanically-inspired dreams? That is not the God I serve. It's also possible that studying Daniel, the Revelation, The Great Controversy, and others of the most lofty, Godly books ever written, causes persons to have dreams of spinning disks that stop at dates, 3 feet off of the ground and about a foot in front of your body, suspended in midair Ross, in both dreams the angel (and the Lord, I believe) did not disclose the day and date of Christ's return--he only displayed it to make a certain point. There is no Biblical problem. If the message is from God, Ross, one would do well to heed the words of the angel: the time for the end is now determined. Jesus' return is imminent!

3) A third, and to the non-Spiritually minded, the most obvious possibility: I made it up. All lies--a fiction. This is not the case, and if you knew me personally you would know that it would not be the case.

On to the next issues,

Ross wrote:Now be careful what people tell you. If someone comes claiming to have "Undeniable proof" of something, ask them if they have ever heard of proof that was deniable?

You see, that expression is known as a tautology it indicates a mind which is uneducated or unaware.

The statement of "undeniable proof" was my summarizing of the events. I was trying to describe the impression that I received concerning the item of (corrected) "proof." That impression was of a proof that could not be denied, even if one tried hard to (undeniable). Just showing my ignorance!

Ross wrote:The S.O.P. specifically states that, if we are not close readers of the Bible our doctrines will be destroyed by the wordly men of the world.

I wholeheartedly agree with your point. The thing that I was doing was studying scripture, with a view toward detail, that I have never attempted before.

Ross wrote:This has been placed here in the hope that it may help. It is not here to criticise anyone. Anyone who wants to learn of the unfortunate things occuring at the G.C. needs only to click onto http://www.sdadefend after putting on your tin hat.

No offense taken, Ross. You're "testing the spirits." But, keep your mind open, with spiritual vigilance--since one of these days God is going to pour out His Holy Spirit without measure. You can not miss this, the zenith of Biblical history! The trouble is, the SDA universe says that they await that day, but I fear they will be terrified when it comes. Maybe, just maybe, it is happening right before your eyes.

Thanks again for your post--it made me think and pray once again.

In Christian love and hope--
Steve