Ellen White once dreamed of how medieval the members of her own church were, when she lived in Battle Creek (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 1, page 578).

See Texas Conference of Seventh-day Adventists and Richardson Church versus Eugene Shubert

How should the everlasting gospel be presented to medieval Seventh-day Adventists like this?

Here is how I define medieval:

They worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?” There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. Revelation 13:4-8.

“The people were wholly deceived. They were taught that the popes and priests were Christ’s representatives, when in fact they were the representatives of Satan, and those who bowed to them worshiped Satan. The people called for the Bible; but the priests considered it dangerous to let them have it to read for themselves, lest they should become enlightened and expose the sins of their leaders. The people were taught to receive every word from these deceivers as from the mouth of God. They held that power over the mind which God alone should hold. If any dared to follow their own convictions, the same hate which Satan and the Jews exercised toward Jesus would be kindled against them, and those in authority would thirst for their blood.” EW 214.

Here is Ellen White’s dream (which I can certainly relate to) that reveals the degree to which the Spirit of Prophecy identifies Ellen White’s church as medieval. Note how sheepish many of these people are.

That night I dreamed that I was in Battle Creek looking out from the side glass at the door and saw a company marching up to the house, two and two. They looked stern and determined. I knew them well and turned to open the parlor door to receive them, but thought I would look again. The scene was changed. The company now presented the appearance of a Catholic procession. One bore in his hand a cross, another a reed. And as they approached, the one carrying a reed made a circle around the house, saying three times: “This house is proscribed. The goods must be confiscated. They have spoken against our holy order.” Terror seized me, and I ran through the house, out of the north door, and found myself in the midst of a company, some of whom I knew, but I dared not speak a word to them for fear of being betrayed. I tried to seek a retired spot where I might weep and pray without meeting eager, inquisitive eyes wherever I turned. I repeated frequently: “If I could only understand this! If they will tell me what I have said or what I have done!”

I wept and prayed much as I saw our goods confiscated. I tried to read sympathy or pity for me in the looks of those around me, and marked the countenances of several whom I thought would speak to me and comfort me if they did not fear that they would be observed by others. I made one attempt to escape from the crowd, but seeing that I was watched, I concealed my intentions. I commenced weeping aloud, and saying: “If they would only tell me what I have done or what I have said!” My husband, who was sleeping in a bed in the same room, heard me weeping aloud and awoke me. My pillow was wet with tears, and a sad depression of spirits was upon me. —Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 1, page 578.

There is simply too much sheepish approval of and empty-headed devotion to medieval thinking and practice. The spirit of antichrist is tolerated everywhere, even in the Adventist church:

Seventh-day Adventist Popery Part 2
Seventh-day Adventist Popery Part 3
Seventh-day Adventist Popery Part 4
Seventh-day Adventist Popery Part 5

Here is my point. (Or is it an insight)? I believe that Revelation 14:6-12 is the gospel for the end-time in a language especially tailored for those who have a medieval mindset. Compare the state of mind revealed in all the previous quotes with the stern warning presented in three angels’ messages:

Then I saw another angel flying in midheaven, with an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.” (Rev 14:6-7).

A second angel followed and said, “Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.” (Rev 14:8).

Then another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” (Rev 14:9-11).

Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. (Rev 14:12).

I referred to the link, Texas Conference of Seventh-day Adventists and Richardson Church versus Eugene Shubert and asked this question: “How should the everlasting gospel be presented to medieval Seventh-day Adventists like this?” I suppose it’s up to me to answer my own question. If it was up to me alone I’d make the following points but I still want to hear what everyone else thinks.

To the church leaders who think and act like they’re the pope: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Flattery is praise and praise is worship. Scripture says that you are not worship Antichrist by imitating him. Consider the third angel’s message.

To church members that are too sheepish to openly, visibly and courageously stand for truth: If you’re too cowardly to take a stand against the pastor and his board, what makes you think you can stand against the beast and his image?

Interesting dream in that it mirrors the reality that Jewish folks endured at the hands of the Romish church. Bible believing folks suffered much the same fate during that time as well. The priest interceeds on their behalf (usurping the office of the HS) the priest forgives their sins (userping the office of the Almighty) the priest has the authority to judge (usurping the office of the Messiah).


2Th 2:10 - 12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Eugene I just read a little of the confrontation you had with the Jesuits at Richardson Church in Texas ....I was in shock but not disbelief as I know of a very similar experience received in the Vancouver Church in British Columbia under a Pastor called Bob Tetz....I also know of an Evangelist who was kicked out of the NSW Conference in Australia for committing a sin that he confesed to (other pastors in the same conference that have committed this sin were pardoned within months and back at work. He to this day (I believe aprox. 20 years) has not been given permission to come back and do the Lords work in Australia.
He has nevertheless gone out and evangelized and brought over 22,000 souls to the LORD and is out there as I write this conducting an evangelistic series in one of the most dangerous places in the world spreading the three Angels message while those good for nothing evil ministers sit there and do what the Bishops did in the dark ages....gather the wealth, warm the pews, and play hypocrites to their conference and congregations.
I have just finished reading the updated Fox's book of Martyrs and my eyes are open to where this is heading and that our Poppery is quite complacent to have the church sitting in neutral and not moving or progressing in any major way.
This we have to waken our brethern to and it can only be done by sharing our experiences and showing our SDA brethern that there are people out there dooping us and filling us with lies and telling us all is well and we are on track etc.,
May the "Spirit" of the "Lord Jesus Christ" be with us and give us wisdom in these matters as we deal with them...and they need to be dealt with !!!
God Bless YOU !!!

You are not alone. The evil one has done a thorough job in our church to do injustice and make sure he has his people in the right places to control !!!

I believe that Seventh-day Adventists need to hear the true gospel. The true gospel in the appropriate endtime context is the three angels' messages (Revelation 14:6-12). Seventh-day Adventists teach the three demons' messages (Revelation 16:13-14).

For example: The first angel's message repudiates spiritualism. Yet Seventh-day Adventists teach spiritualism. See The Spiritualism of Adventism.

The second angel's message exposes the presumptuousness of Babylon. However, like those in Babylon, Seventh-day Adventists are not humbled by indisputable evidence of their Laodicean standing before God. They are angered by it. They wish to deny their arrogance and try to hide their own presumptuousness. See Threats, Intimidation and the Kingdom of God.

The third angel's messages announces the judgment that will fall on those that worship the antichrist power. How do Seventh-day Adventists respond? They retaliate by appealing to the State against those who proclaim the three angels' messages. "This house is proscribed. The goods must be confiscated. They have spoken against our holy order." See Adventist Arrested and Sued for not submitting to Church-taught Spiritualism.

Here are three additional witnesses (all Adventists) that agree that The Counterfeit Character of God Movement in the Seventh-day Adventist Church is based on spiritualism:

1. Milton G. Crane, M.D., author of A Modern Subtle Challenge To God's Authority.
2. Steve Wohlberg.
3. Dwight Turner.

The fulfillment of Ellen White's prophecy about Kellogg's alpha maturing into the omega of deadly heresies shouldn't be surprising to true Seventh-day Adventists. Sister White called the teachings of John Harvey Kellogg a "fascinating, spiritualistic science of Satanic origin." See Musings About An Adventist Antichrist.

Why is the whole Church, which is capable of crying aloud and sparing not, responsible for the profanation of the temple?

"If one neglects the duty Christ has enjoined, of trying to restore those who are in error and sin, he becomes a partaker in the sin. For evils that we might have checked, we are just as responsible as if we were guilty of the acts ourselves." DA 441.

The Word of God says: "Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt." Lev. 19:17. NIV.

What does this have to do with the straight testimony to the Laodicean Church that causes the shaking? The desire to silence or punish the whistleblower for reporting the truth is the height of Laodicean deception.

Seventh-day Adventists are not humbled by indisputable evidence of their Laodicean standing before God.

I believe that Seventh-day Adventists need to hear the true gospel. The true gospel in the appropriate endtime context is the three angels' messages (Revelation 14:6-12). Seventh-day Adventists teach the three demons' messages (Revelation 16:13-14).

Eugene, After reading the first three paragraphs(Anything longer than this I seldom read) at the link here I became depressed. I sense a kind of animosity towards the SDA church from you and others here(I may be wrong in my assumption). It is not only SDAs who reflect these attributes, but believers in the Almighty (One)God. These attributes are reflected in Islam, Catholicism et al. You can even see these attributes in non-believers/SDAs as well.

I have mentioned before, that I have not read(and will not either) the writings of these men, but I have preached on these topics in my former church and a few other churches here in Germany, and people walked out. They even held boardmeetings to never let me preach in their church again. However I never did reveal the details(and never will) on the internet. Dirty laundry should be cleansed not hung out for all to see.

Brother, is your rebuke out of Love or is it a manifestation of that which you preach against? Your site is called Everythingimportant and you say that you are a Reformed SDA. May I ask, reformed from what to what? You my dear brethren exhibit the same attributes(your words) like those from which you are supposedly reformed.

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

This should be your first priority, but I don't read it anywhere here.

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

My brother, I will pray earnestly for you. Your points are valid, but your intentions a wrongly motivated. I do have a last request though. Please delete these two accounts of mine "iyshi and oraphim", for I feel no longer welcomed here.

God Bless your intentions,
Oraphim aka Iyshi

oraphim wrote:Eugene, After reading the first three paragraphs at the link here I became depressed. I sense a kind of animosity towards the SDA church from you and others here

I then have good news for you. It's not a depressing message but is a wonderful testimony of courage and hope. I also have the very inspirational story of Peter Hedgemont to share with Laodiceans. This is a positive Adventist message, which perfectly illustrates the Seventh-day Adventist gospel. No one can say that this gospel isn't positive. It's a perfect message for those Adventists that refuse to hear anything negative.

oraphim wrote:These attributes are reflected in Islam, Catholicism et al. You can even see these attributes in non-believers/SDAs as well.

That is true but Scripture commands that we are not to judge outsiders; only those inside the Church should be judged (1 Corinthians 5:13).

oraphim wrote:Dirty laundry should be cleansed not hung out for all to see.

Then please explain your disapproval of Luke 4:14-30 and why you disagree with Sister White who said that Seventh-day Adventists resemble the Jews of the first century in terms of attitude, position and experience. See Instances in the writings of Ellen G. White where Ellen White implores Seventh-day Adventists to not be just like the Jews at the time of Christ but that they are anyway.

oraphim wrote:

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

This should be your first priority, but I don't read it anywhere here.

That's a great verse for Catholics to justify pedophiles continuing as priests and to shame any believer that denounces Seventh-day Adventist injustices. Was that your intention? And will you now please apologize for interrupting this thread, the purpose of which is to answer the question of the opening post?

oraphim wrote:

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

My brother, I will pray earnestly for you. Your points are valid, but your intentions a wrongly motivated.

Here you condemn yourself by quoting a Scripture that denounces evil surmisings, which is exactly the same thing as presuming to understand someone's heart well enough to judge its intentions, which you do not know. Not even mine.

oraphim wrote:I do have a last request though. Please delete these two accounts of mine "iyshi and oraphim", for I feel no longer welcomed here.

I think that you should first be given every opportunity to confess your transparent hypocrisy, willful blindness and horrific ignorance.