The Confessing Seventh-day Adventist

Hello easyriderman. I find your linking information on Knoll’s Giant Peach Dream very interesting. That was a most precise utilized symbolism indeed. I do see that the Dream indeed only didn’t happen for the better then.

In regards to the SDA Church surviving the Shake (cf. Knoll’s Dream #22. The SDA Church) as I fully understand it, it is important to keep in mind that God’s True Church is not a physical building. So merely looking if a building is standing through the Shaking is not the right gauge for things here. That was the mistake of the First Century Jews and the Temple. God’s True Church is wherever His Truth is preached. (Cf. Ezek 11:23-24). And if God’s Full Gospel Work cannot be done with/in the present SDA physical institutions then other one will have to be set up.

So at best here, God gave Ernie Knoll a hopeful dream that the present SDA institution would be of proper use after the Shaking, but if things turn out to be worse than expected, than God could easily “change His mind” (=Jer 18:9-10ff) and bring about even utter physical loss, ruin, “desolation”. So I see this dream of Knoll to be a “repent or else further judgement” type of indication by God. The same opportunity to physically save “Jerusalem and its temple was granted by God in both the multi-phase Jeremiah and 70 A.D. destructions.

Eugene Shubert wrote:

easyriderman wrote: what I just witnessed could happen, but we must understand that He who sits on the throne and knows all to no end knows what would be best, and He might not allow this to occur.

Please name a Bible prophet that recounts the details of a dream or vision where the attending angel is uncertain about the heavenly revelation and cheapens it by saying, "It might not happen."

Next, try to remove all the maybes that Ernie Knoll has written and also erase all of his rephrasing of Ellen White’s testimonies and then clearly see that Ernie Knoll is indeed the Prophet of Emptiness.

And that reminds me of a very stern judgment: An angel said, "Are all messengers?" Another answered, "No, no; God's messengers have a message." {EW 50.1}

Eugene, the “Lukewarm” state of the SDA Church explains why God is allowing for either extreme scenarios to possibly play out, depending on how the Church reacts to those merciful opportunities. (Rev 3:15ff) I see that since, Knoll’s latest messages from God have been more pronounced on pending severe judgement for those past, SDA-snubbed opportunities for zealous repentance. (Rev 3:19)

easyriderman wrote:Ever heard of jonah & the whale?

I know all about conditionality in Bible prophecy and the message of the prophet Jonah. What message by Ernie Knoll or another messenger was delivered to the General Conference Session at Atlanta that was humbly received, which fostered genuine repentance, which in turn averted the conditional promise of destruction?

NJK Project wrote:Eugene, the “Lukewarm” state of the SDA Church explains why God is allowing for either extreme scenarios to possibly play out, depending on how the Church reacts to those merciful opportunities.

That doesn't answer my question. I asked a question about Scripture.

Eugene Shubert wrote:

easyriderman wrote:Ever heard of jonah & the whale?

I know all about conditionality in Bible prophecy and the message of the prophet Jonah. What message by Ernie Knoll or another messenger was delivered to the General Conference Session at Atlanta that was humbly received, which fostered genuine repentance, which in turn averted the conditional promise of destruction?

Maybe it was the prayers from us that God would be merciful and spare them.

Eugene Shubert wrote:

NJK Project wrote:Eugene, the “Lukewarm” state of the SDA Church explains why God is allowing for either extreme scenarios to possibly play out, depending on how the Church reacts to those merciful opportunities.

That doesn't answer my question. I asked a question about Scripture.

I was actually generally addressing the issue you raised, but in regards to a specific text, your deferred scenario from Amos 7:1-9 readily comes to mind where God 3 times showed something He was planning to do but 2 times changes his mind, and, as easyriderman says, because of prayers for mercy from others. He then settled for the “plumbline judgement”.

easyriderman wrote:Maybe it was the prayers from us that God would be merciful and spare them.

And perhaps you’re just as deceived as that idiotic believer in Ernie Knoll that had announced on topix a fantastic judgment by God that was to come this past June, but never arrived.

So why do all the followers of Ernie Knoll seem so brain-dead that they just keep revising their astoundingly false predictions and have no qualms about being proven to be deluded sheeple?

NJK Project wrote:I was actually generally addressing the issue you raised, but in regards to a specific text, your deferred scenario from Amos 7:1-9

There is no similarity between Amos 7:1-9, which has an undeniably unavoidable conclusion, and the never-ending evasiveness and nothingness by the Prophet of Emptiness.

Eugene Shubert wrote:There is no similarity between Amos 7:1-9, which has an undeniably unavoidable conclusion, and the never-ending evasiveness and nothingness by the Prophet of Emptiness.

I actually do see a similarity in that there is still a pending (=unavoidable) judgement upon the SDA Church and it is a matter of which one and when, depending on when the time and circumstances will be best for it. As I understand it, those past times were just a most genuine test by God to see if such a definite message would effectuate the proper response. It did not, and though it was mercifully delayed future, yet less striking, but still most effective Judgement will be done. The same ‘downgrading’ of judgement occurred in Amos 7:1-9 going from a locust swarm (cf. Joel’s eschatology revelation), to fire, to a the Lord with a plumb line.

It is interesting to see that Knoll’s dream involved 2 phases of judgement, similarly a ‘crop [=the peach] destroying’ implement and then fire from coals. So now, with those 2 judgements mercifully set aside, only a ‘plumbline’ type of judgement remains to be done.

I discuss this Shaking judgement and the so-called plumbline (which actually is an adamant wall) in this post see Section entitled “Result of Shaking Judgement”.

I recommend something about Ernie Knoll and what I see to be his specific prophetic ministry to the SDA Church, which may be helpful to you Eugene: I see that to him was given a type of “mellow” message to match the “lukewarm” attitude of the Church (=Ezek 14:1-5, 7-8) so though they could understand how to be reformed from it, they also could just as easily reject it from not being “specific and solemn” enough. But that is really the best prophetic chance the SDA Church will get. In other words, the any involved ambiguity with Knoll’s messages is Divinely purposed, and the fact that he is faithfully relating those as is, despite a wave of criticism against such types of messages, proves to me that he is indeed relating things just as he is being shown.

NJK Project wrote: I see that to him [Ernie Knoll] was given a type of “mellow” message to match the “lukewarm” attitude of the Church

Ernie Knoll is a transparent ignoramus that deals exclusively in cheap sentiments and foolish tests. Why can't you see that? Why aren't you in pain from the things he writes? Repeatedly, Ernie Knoll has revealed himself as deserving the title of "the Prophet of Emptiness."

Please understand this testimony:

Ellen G. White wrote:God desires the light found in the books of Daniel and Revelation to be presented in clear lines. It is painful to think of the many cheap theories picked up and presented to the people by ignorant, unprepared teachers. Those who present their human tests and the nonsensical ideas they have concocted in their own minds, show the character of the goods in their treasure house. They have laid in store shoddy material. Their great desire is to make a sensation. {1MR 62.3}

The truth for this time has been brought out in many books. Let those who have been dealing in cheap sentiments and foolish tests, cease this work and study Daniel and the Revelation. They will then have something to talk about that will help the mind. As they receive the knowledge contained in this book, they will have in the treasure house of the mind a store from which they can continually draw as they communicate to others the great, essential truths of God's Word. {1MR 62.4}

I have heard of these claims of “emptiness” and inanity against Ernie Knoll, but the more I test his dreams, rightly interpreting the involved symbolism, the more that I do not see that they are “empty revelation”. In fact, to the contrary, I see that they have been, and are being deliberately so conveyed by God in fulfilment of his Isa 6:8-13|Matt 13:10-17 policy towards those who are rebellious to do his will. And so, like I said, that is all fulfilling God’s Ezek 14:1-5, 7-8 policy and that is one of the best/closest, if not the best/closest general prophetic communications that stubborn/stiff necks SDA’s will ever get. If they neither want to do God’s Full Gospel Will nor properly evaluate Knoll’s dreams then they’ll remain in the dark and atrociously fail the Shaking.

In terms of substance, I don’t think you can find fault with the substance of Knoll’s dream and its involved regualr elements as your dreams, as well as Starman’s also involve those non-explicitly “religious” elements. Yet Knoll’s dream do also contain explicit religious elements as well as seeing and communicating with Heavenly Beings.

In regards to the test of genuineness found in Knoll’s dream and your EGW quote, she is not speaking of “dream/vision validation tests” but test used to prove that a theory on the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation were through. I.e., incorrect Hermeneutical paramaters and not prophetic revelation “testing”. Furthermore, Knoll speaks more along SOP revelations in regards to final events, as well as prophecies I regards to the Shaking of the SDA Church, which both are not explicitly stated in the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation but are added prophetic revelations by God to pointedly speak to His Remnant Church group. The prophecies of D&R are more general than those which speak to the SDA Church.

So for me, all related things duly considered, “the jury is still out” on Ernie Knoll, and thus far I see it as returning a most favorable, even unanimous, verdict for him. No one, even God’s chosen prophets from John to EGW and other have a perfect knowledge of the Bible, or even the Divine prophecies they present. Yet I do not see this point as being applicable to, or determinative for, Knoll, since I do not see/believe that he is concocting his dreams, but is rather faithful relating things as he was shown, however ‘inane” that makes him seem to be. As I said, I see this approach as being of God’s deliberate and purposeful doing. He won’t be giving greater and brighter light to those who are rejecting his priorly given light, but instead, visually/seemingly “dimming” light. (Cf. John 12:38-41)

So in summary, as repeatedly revealed in my discussions here on Knoll, (see e.g., here on his “Sifting” revelation), what many are surfacely seeing as banality and “emptiness” on his part, I am finding, upon deeper Bible & SOP study, to be loaded with pivotal Spiritual significance.

You may if you want, cite your Top 5 claims of “emptiness” against Knoll. I’ll examine them.
(Just today of my blog, I came to find great significance from an objection which someone had to Knoll’s attending angel going by the (supposed) name of “The Herald” (see here.)

NJK Project wrote: I do not see/believe that he is concocting his dreams,

There is no dispute that Ernie Knoll has concocted false testimonies, pretended that they were the testimonies of others, and, when caught, blamed it on being deceived by a demon. http://www.everythingimportant.org/seve ... eKnoll.htm

NJK Project wrote:You may if you want, cite your Top 5 claims of “emptiness” against Knoll. I’ll examine them.

I just finished quoting Ellen White’s obvious belief that new light found in the books of Daniel and Revelation trumps cheap sentiments and foolish tests. Consequently, those who teach the most powerful light from Daniel and Revelation have greater authority than appalling and very disgusting sanctimonious liars like Ernie Knoll that continually represents himself as an innocent child being held by the hand of an angelic guide. Even worse, that angel communicates grotesquely empty tautologies like “a fearful judgment is coming at the end of June but it might not happen.”

Ultimately, the greatest difference between us is that I believe that Seventh-day Adventists should be directed to study unquestionably powerful new light from Daniel and Revelation and you choose to place a much greater emphasis for Adventists to listen to Ernie Knoll’s fictitious angel that quotes minutiae from the writings of Ellen G. White.

You are either misunderstanding or misconstrue my actual statements and view here Eugene.

1) I was speaking about Ernie Knolls dream and not his Candace and Great Commission Council sinful/lying concoction, which I amply discuss on my blog post. So in regards to his dreams, I do not see any evidence that they are being fabricated. In fact as their symbolized messages continue to fully check out under Bible and SOP examination, I not only see for that that they are indeed not made up, but that Ernie Knoll could not have crafted them as such even if he wanted to. In fact, some of the fullest understandings of them on my blog, he has not even considered himself for his dreams.

2) As I said, that EGW statement is not making a Daniel and Revelation vs. other Prophecy (which would have to include here own) comparison, but a D&R vs. interpretative theories and tests of D&R (its hermeneutics) one. That comes to include interpreting books about Daniel and Revelation as also seen today. The “Left Behind” series today would fall under this category of interpreting books/works she was decrying.

And she in not talking here about “new” light, but simply “light” from D&R. I.e., what has already been established from the Biblical study of it.

So as I said, Knoll is dealing in prophecies for the SDA Church itself. Just as EGW’s most of prophecies were. And if your ‘D&R exclusivity’ claim is true then one has to reject such prophetic complimenting works of the SOP such as the prophetic parts of Early Writings and the final chapters of the Great Controversy. EGW is not teaching that new prophecies cannot be accepted because we already have D&R, instead new prophecies have to be tested to see if the complimentarily harmonize with the rightly interpreted message of D&R.

Thus far you have not actually made a substantive claim in regards to the message of Ernie Knoll. Just how it is depicted. By the same rule, should be rule you out as a false prophet because your dream involved the notion of a horse sitting inside a car? Focus on the substance and then you’ll be able to best understand the symbolism. And Knoll being led as a child by the hand could all be symbolic of how submissively trusting and obedient God desires the rest of his professed people to be, if they too are to be directly led by God. Nothing of a “capital crime” involved in that, most likely, pointedly symbolic, constant depiction.

And there is nothing “grotesquely empty” with an angel explicitly stating from the start that a prophecy may not be fulfilled. It all just shows how God is already seeing it best, as stated in that dream, to not do that judgement, and thus go by an alternative course instead. That is all similar to what was said in Amos 7:1-6.

Actually my view is that until SDA heed the Early Rain’s Light (i.e., the SOP counsel) they won’t begin to see nor understand any greater light in D&R. And I see Ernie Knoll as being the best chance to fully grasp what has been said about them in the writing of EGW. And as I said, I am seeing this as ‘the only/best chance they’ll get’. As Jesus showed, for especially the Jewish people to accept him and the NT Light he was bring forth, they first had to properly understand the OT’s Light.

And I see that God won’t force SDA’s to do this Early Rain Light heeding, hence the commonly contemptibly deemed prophetic ministry of Ernie Knoll. (=1 Cor 1:27)

Anyone who accepts as a God-inspired prophecy the claim that “a fearful judgment is coming at the end of June but it might not happen” could just as easily believe a fabricated revelation where an angel allegedly appears in a dream to announce that the sun will come up tomorrow.

I don’t have to prove that such silly predictions are typical characterizations of false teachers that rejoice in cheap sentiments and foolish tests. It’s simply what I believe. Consequently, it's legitimate to say that Ernie Knoll doesn't have a message.

Eugene Shubert wrote:

easyriderman wrote:Maybe it was the prayers from us that God would be merciful and spare them.

And perhaps you’re just as deceived as that idiotic believer in Ernie Knoll that had announced on topix a fantastic judgment by God that was to come this past June, but never arrived.

So why do all the followers of Ernie Knoll seem so brain-dead that they just keep revising their astoundingly false predictions and have no qualms about being proven to be deluded sheeple?

I have no idea of the judgement you speak of. All I can say is I prayed for God to be merciful to Atlanta, GA, before the set time, and I am certain many others did as well. I am glad He was, and that the love of Jesus continues to shine forth on this sin sick world, which we all live in.