WHAT BEST PROVES THAT MRS WHITE BECAME TRINITARIAN?




NOW COMPARE MRS. WHITE'S TESTIMONY ON THIS ISSUE!!




INTRODUCTION:

It is interesting that it was in 1892 that Adventism first published trinitarianism through its Pacific Press publishing house, and it was after that event that all the forgoing quotes from Adventism’s E.G. White were written. It is strikingly obvious that the expression, “third person of the godhead” is distinctly a trinitarian expression. Every trinitarian statement of belief (of various Christian denominations) almost every time uses the expression to express trinitarianism. True anti-Trinitarians do not allow it, as seen in the opinions expressed above. The doctrine of the trinity, whatever version, is historically the only one, which freely uses this expression, and thus they are (the doctrine and the expression) closely associated. Arianism, true semi-Arianism, Unitarianism, Judaism, Islam, etc, never, ever uses (or should use) this expression!! Only trinitarianism does!! Honesty and true historical scholarship accepts this undeniable fact!! Also, since the English word “godhead” is of European origin when trinitarianism was dominant during the 13th century, then no anti-Trinitarian has any business using it in the sense of saying, “the third person of the godhead”, since it was Trinitarians who invented this expression. Proof? See below.


*Definitions below are from- Merriam-Webster Online Collegiate Dictionary and http://www.dictionary.com.

God·head n.
1. Divinity; godhood.
2. Godhead a. The Christian God, especially the Trinity. b. The essential and divine nature of God, regarded abstractly

Main Entry: God·head
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English godhed, from god + -hed -hood; akin to Middle English -hod -hood Date: ***13th century
1 : divine nature or essence : DIVINITY
2 capitalized a : GOD * b : the nature of God especially as existing in three persons. COMMENTS ON THE WORDS-

This last reference is most interesting because it mentions the etymology (origin) of the word “Godhead.” It was never originally in the Bible as “Godhead” but existed only in meaning as, simply translated, “divine nature”. While the word “TRINITY” (in Greek, then Latin) pre-dated, BY MANY YEARS, the origin of the Roman Catholic Church (in the fourth century after Constantine), the word “Godhead” has its origin is in the 13th century. Since Trinitarianism was dominant at that point in Europe, and in the succeeding ages of Christian history, we must respect the ordinary meaning of the word. Only a cultist would redefine words and insist on non-standard meanings (as some sectarian, and anti- Trinitarian Seventh-day Adventists do today, simply because they cannot discount Mrs. White’s use of some words, so they are forced to conveniently re-define words for themselves, to ‘escape’ what they are historically connected with). Consequently, the expression, the “third person of the Godhead” (capitalized or not) is an unmistakable reference to the Holy Spirit as the “Third Person in the Godhead” in a Trinitarian sense. It cannot be proven otherwise, historically or linguistically, that is, using authoritative and unbiased sources. Linguistically, and historically, the phrase “third person of the Godhead” only has meaning for Trinitarians and those who use the word “Godhead” to mean the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as a group of three divine persons. No anti- Trinitarian has business using it, UNLESS THEY ENGAGE IN DEMONIC TWISTING OF MEANINGS AND WORDS.

CONCLUSION:

All the basic premises, which identify Trinitarianism, are in the writings of Mrs. White, who was alive when her Church started to expunge the previously held semi-Arian and Arian teachings from its ranks, as of 1892 (long before her death).Written anti-Trinitarian expressions among Adventists became significantly less after 1892, and the following pre-1915 sentiments were increasingly appearing on record:



Mrs. White, who was so pointed in calling sin, “sin”, and error, “error”, and clearly listed and called by name, or described directly the errors of “Babylon”, would not, could not ignore calling direct attention to what some call the “mother of all heresies” (the trinity), that is, if she saw it as such. However, notice her clear words below, regarding what is the “mother of all heresies”.



The foregoing is plain for all to see. If trinitarianism broke the first commandment (as declared by some), and was such an error, then Mrs. White would have no choice but refer to it directly. Did she see it as such, or spoke directly against it? NO! The fact is, she never, ever wrote one single line, directly opposed to Trinitarianism, and even after her Church started to publish it openly through its main publishing houses. This fact, coupled with the similarity between her post-1892 expressions and trinitarianism speaks large volumes. And this writer says, Amen!!

FOR MORE EVIDENCE, e.g. on the “of one substance” Trinitarian expression used even by Mrs. White, or the mysterious nature of Christ’s death and resurrection, or the absolute Godhead of Christ despite his voluntary subjection to the Father, or why a belief in an "Eternal Godhead" of "three living Persons" is basic trinitarianism even if certain Trinitarian teachings are rejected, THEN SEE ALL MY POSTS ON THIS CHAT SITE, or:

Call: (876) 317-2526 or 634-2987 or

Hello :)

I received in my email a post from you on the CSDA thread. When I came to read it on the site, it was gone; I assume it was moved or some such thing because it was off topic, if so that is appreciated. In any event, it was apparently a "call to battle" of some kind... I suppose I then should take this time to verify my statement regarding the Adventist pioneers (Mrs. White included). I should also ask that you please refrain from such terms as "ignorant of the facts," it is very unhumble, and does not make conversation easier; especially should the speaker be, in fact, ignorant of a fact or two themselves.

Also, should you wish to go into *scripture* regarding this, which is the foundation of faith (Not the pioneer's writings) please let me know.

As for now, to respond to your quotes.

Most of the quotes you cited rest upon the word "person." I see from your language at the end, that you have previously been made aware that in many cases the word was changed from "person" and "personality" into "Person," capitals added. Mrs. White herself explained what she meant when she used this wording:



If Mrs. White became trinitarian before her death in 1915, someone did not notify her son Willie White, who I am sure you are familiar with, as he was very close to his mother. (Ellen often referred to him as "My dear Willie") Please note the date on this next excerpt. He also explains himself, the true Adventist understanding of the word "person," as used of the Spirit.


I notice that you listed very few quotes as the "greatest evidence Ellen White became Trinitarian." If you are truly interested in seeking the facts of the matter and not simply validating your own belief, which I pray is the case, please do feel free to take a look at this article; It is a compilation of Trinity quotes from every single Adventist pioneer either I or the author has heard of; Mrs. White included.

http://www.creation-seventh-day-adventist-church.org/Binary/Essays/ePioneer.html

Your verses were explained in it, although I did take the time to do that again personally, so it does not appear as if I am simply brushing you off. :)

Also addressed is your somewhat incorrect statement that Mrs. White never condemned the Trinity heresy; I am sure you are familiar with Dr. Kellogg's addition of "Pantheism," which he himself admitted, the entire debate came down to "Is the holy spirit a person," he himself stating that yes, it was. Mrs. White referred to this as the "Alpha of Apostasy."

Another Adventist writer stated that the Omega was the re-adoption of the Trinity doctrine in its full.

Also from the extensive list of blatently anti-Trinitarian quotes on the link above, I would think the argument backfires to a degree; While rebuking Dr. Kellogg for saying the Spirit is a person, no comment was made to the list of every pioneer there was regarding their statements against the Trinity, some terming it as worse than Sunday Sabbath in regard to obstructing the 3 angels messages.

As for your history of words, and your apparent tactic of pre-condemning those who disagree... Please do not do that, it has a tendancy of draining life out of a conversation, and does not give much appearence of earnest truth-seeking. :)

In response to it, however, with all due respect, I find that to be a very weak and shifty argument. It would appear that you have taken one of the 2 different definitions of the word, and declared that because a belief was common then, it then means the word "Godhead" can only mean what most people used it to mean hundreds of years ago.

Sir, are you aware that in England, the country whose language we speak, "Pants" is considered a curse word? The word "Pharmecia," from which "Pharmecy" is clearly derived (And dictionaries back this up) was used in Greek for herbs and plants mixed for sorcery; "Pharmacia" is translated as "Sorcery" every occurance that I am aware of in the new testament. Will you state from this alone that pharmacists are sorcerers and demon worshippers, heretics if they do not agree because of wording?

I am no "fan" or supporter of "modern medicine," but playing with a words initial meaning to condemn or prove a case today is rather double-minded, if you are not willing to do it in every instance.

In any event, should you have an argument or question upon reading the above linked document please get back to me; And moreso if you would wish to please get into the word of God on the matter. I believe Mrs. White was inspired, do not doubt, but "Thus saith the Lord" is the foundation of my faith, not "Thus saith Mrs. White." She was inspired, but as she herself said, she was the lesser light.


Yours in Christ,

Hi Light Fox; welcome to the forum that's dedicated to everything important.

I'm the one who moved gillespie's reply. You'll find it in the Jail forum under the heading Please stop posting such long replies! You'll find many of gillespie's threads in the Jail forum. He seems to have a difficult time obeying rule #4: forum courtesy.

FYI: Questions about "gospel order" may be posted in these related threads:
http://www.everythingimportant.org/SDA/viewtopic.php?t=429
http://www.everythingimportant.org/SDA/viewtopic.php?t=12

I find tpp many people get the impression that the HOLY SPIRIT is not a person. Yet in the BIBLE the HOLY SPIRIT chatted with PHILIP.

ACTS 8:29
Proves that the HOLY SPIRIT is a thinking talking individual.
As no human has seen the FATHER and lived it is then assumed the FATHER is different to the HOLY SPIRIT.
Jesus on the other hand has a body that he got from MARY that he did not have before.

I am not one to teach here but I only wish to submit the following to your attention. God bless, adventbeliever

"Christ who is God over all, blessed forever more." Romans 9:5.

"If Christ made all things, He existed before all things. The words spoken in regard to this are so decisive that no one need be left in doubt. Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore. The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct Person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of Heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by Him as His right. This was no robbery of God." E.G. White, Bible Commentary on John 1:1, Vol.1, p.1126.

"He voluntarily assumed human nature. It was His own act, and by His own consent. He clothed His divinity with humanity. He was all the while as God, but He did not appear as God. He veiled the demonstration of Deity, which had commanded the homage, and called forth the admiration, of the universe of God. He was God while upon earth, but He divested Himself of the form of God, and in its stead took the form and fashion of a man. He walked on earth as a man. For our sakes He became poor, that we through His poverty might be made rich. He was God, but the glories of the form of God He for a while relinquished." Ibid, 1126.

Christ relinquished the form of God forever and took the form and fashion of man for ever but the glories of the form of God He relinquished only for a while... the glories that were upon His divine form before His incarnation are now upon His human form.

"By virtue of His merits, we receive power to become members of the Royal Family, children of the heavenly King." E.G. White, Our Father Cares, p.120.

As we appropriate the all-sufficient merits of Christ, we become members of the Royal family. In other words, it is our privilege to become partakers of Christ's nature, a nature far above that which Adam and Eve forfeited by transgression. "It is the privilege of every believer in Christ to possess Christ's nature, a nature far above that which Adam and Eve forfeited by transgression." E.W. White, The Upward Look, p.18.

"The only faith that will benefit us is that which appropriates Christ's merits to ourselves." Desire of Ages, p.347.

Then "Jesus places His own merits upon man and thus elevates him in the scales of moral value with God." E.G. White, Our Father Cares, p.120.

"By gentle and patient ministry the angels move upon the human spirit, to bring the lost into a fellowship with Christ which is even closer than they themselves can know." Desire of Ages, p.21.

"To show what every human being might become, what, through the undwelling of humanity by divinity, all who received Christ would become--for this, Christ came to the world." Education, p.74.

"In Christ we become even more closely united to God than if we had never fallen. In taking our nature, the Saviour has bound Himself to humanity by a tie that is never to be broken. Through the eternal ages He is linked with us. 'God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son.' He gave Him not only to bear our sins, and to die as our sacrifice; He gave Him to the fallen race. This is the pledge that God will fulfill His word. 'Unto us a child is born, unto us a child is given.' God has adopted human nature in the Person of His Son, and has carried the same into the highest heaven. It is the 'Son of man' who shares the throne of the universe. It is the 'Son of man' whose name shall be called, 'Wonderful Counsellor, the Mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.' Isa.9:6. The I AM is the Daysman between God and humanity... The exaltation of the Redeemed will be an eternal testimony to God's mercy." Desire of Ages, p.25,26.

What does this mean to us? "The declaration in His intercessory prayer, that the Father's love is as great toward us as toward Himself, the only-begotten of Son, and that we shall be with Him where He is, forever one with Christ and the Father, is a marvel to the heavenly host, and it is their great joy." Testimonies to Ministers, p.18.

The prime minister of England works for the Royal family but he is not a member of that family. The angels who have never sinned are ministers of God working for the Royal Family but they are not members of the Royal Family and yet they minister to the lost to bring them into a fellowship with God which is even closer than they themselves can know! How unselfish is that!

We are to be one with Christ, who is God in the highest sense, as He is one with the Father. What union is this!!! By partaking of Christ's divine nature, we receive the Gift that cannot be excelled!!! This is the highest place to which man can attain! "How eagerly do angels look to see who will avail himself of this opportunity!" 1 S.M.416. Now we may better understand this passage of Scriptures, "I said, 'You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High.'" Ps.82:6; John 10:34,35. (Of course, this does not mean that the redeemed are "God" but by grace they partake of Christ's nature, a nature far above that which Adam and Eve forfeited by transgression!)

Is this not food for thought? God bless!

Can we not praise and thank God forever for His unfathomable Gift!

"Thank God for His unspeakable gift." 2 Cor.9:15.

adventbeliever