The Confessing Seventh-day Adventist

I read Eugene's thoughts on the Passion of the Christ Movie and appreciated that someone else is as disturbed as I have been over the obvious Roman Catholicism and extraBiblical messages. I also wanted to find out if this was a Seventh Day Adventist board because I read one of the off site articles from a link in one of the messages and found that the Author did not see any thing wrong with Ellen White's extraBiblical visions even though disturbed by those of Sister Catherine Emmerich.

Coincidentally, a month or so back I was searching internet about what I had heard someone say about how some people do not believe that Moses actually died. To me this is plain not Biblical because the Bible states clearly that Moses died and was buried. I guess some got the impression that Moses was not dead because he appeared with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration. In my surfing I happened on some visionary writings of Ellen White in regard to the death of Moses. Her visions in this respect were definitely not Biblical so I am at a lost to understand that anyone would accept one set of visions from Ellen White but not accept the same type of visions from Sister Emmerich.

Anyway, I appreciated your views on the Passion of the Christ and am happy that not all Protestants were taken in by this heresy. I feel like it has been a major set back for Christianity. As Eugene pointed out in one of the posts, we didn't even have pictures nor Passion plays until the Catholic church decided to keep people in the dark re the Bible.

I hope I have posted correctly. These message boards sometimes confuse me.

By the way, this is my introduction of myself to the board. I'm Nannette, obviously a Protestant and I have been born again since 1968 when I converted from Agnosticism to Christianity.

Hi Nannette,

I'm glad that you liked my compilation on the Passion movie. I didn't write those thoughts. I just assembled them.

You asked if this is a Seventh-day Adventist bulletin board. The administrators around here teach that Seventh-day Adventism is comparable to first century Judaism. [1] [2]. "To the same degree that the Jewish church rejected Christ, Seventh-day Adventists embrace antichrist."

It's not wise to discount the high calling of the SDA. Jesus said, "You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews" (John 4:22).

Many Christians believe in the perpetuity of spiritual gifts, not just the SDA. The Apostle Paul wrote, “Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances, but examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.” 1 Thess. 5:19-21.

Steve Starman wrote of an impressive dream that he had, where, in the dream, he was an investigative reporter being given “undeniable proof” of a concealed, dangerous corporate or governmental cover-up. Interpretation of the dream points to criminal behavior in the governing body of the corporate SDA church. I have firsthand knowledge of SDA spiritual wickedness in high places. I keep marveling at the stunning accuracy of Steve's dream. If you have proof positive that God doesn't give believers dreams or visions today, then that's a claim of new light. Please post how you justify your claim in the Mars Hill forum.

I never heard of anyone denying that Moses died and was buried. The dispute is if Moses could have been resurrected. Paul said "death reigned from Adam to Moses" (Romans 5:14). Why did Paul's description of death's reign stop with Moses? Could something have happened in Moses' time to overturn the undisputed supremacy of death? Jude mentions a dispute between the archangel and the devil about the body of Moses (Jude 1:9). Why should there be any dispute between the archangel and the devil about Moses' body (Jude 1:9) unless the archangel was directed to resurrect Moses and Satan objected?

You already know the one archangel (chief-messenger) that can raise the dead.

Paul wrote:because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
1 Thessalonians 4:16, Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

There is an apocryphal book called The Assumption of Moses where Moses is indeed raised and ascends to heaven. How do you know that it didn't really happen?

If you're certain that you're right and that spiritual gifts no longer exist, then Mars Hill would be a good place to explain your position if you believe that you can prove your claims persuasively.

Eugene Shubert wrote:Many Christians believe in the perpetuity of spiritual gifts, not just the SDA. The Apostle Paul wrote, “Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances, but examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.” 1 Thess. 5:19-21.

I keep marveling at the stunning accuracy of Steve's dream. If you have proof positive that God doesn't give believers dreams or visions today, then that's a claim of new light. Please post how you justify your claim in the Mars Hill forum.

There is an apocryphal book called The Assumption of Moses where Moses is indeed raised and ascends to heaven. How do you know that it didn't really happen?"

If you're certain that you're right and that spiritual gifts no longer exist, then Mars Hill would be a good place to explain your position if you believe that you can prove your claims persuasively.

Hi Eugene,

I guess I was not very clear. I do believe that believers have gifts and dreams but I don't believe they are inspired as Scripture and have to be tested against the inspired Word. I know that Moses died and was buried because that is what the Scripture says. Deut. 32:48-50 "On that same day the Lord told Moses, "Go up into the Abarim Range to Mount Nebo in Moab across from Jericho, and view Canaan, the land I am giving the Israelites as their own possession. There on the mountain that you have climbed you will die and be gathered to your people, just as your brother Aaron died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people." Deut. 34:5 -6, 9 "And Moses the servant of the Lord died there in Moab, as the Lord had said. He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. ... The Israelites grieved for Moses in the plains of Moab 30 days until the time of weeping and mourning was over." Jude 9. But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil over the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you." It is obviously the dead body of Moses that they are disputing over. That tells me that Moses died and was buried. No where does scripture say that he was resurrected so whatever dreams or revelations anyone might have after the Bible record is only speculation. For this purpose we are warned not to add to nor subtract from the Scritpural record. That does not deny the gifts of dreams and visions so long as they do not add to the Scripture not say something contrary to scripture. In this case, Scripture is clear that Moses died and was buried and was "gathered unto his people" in just the same way as Aaron.

The thing about death reigning until Moses has to be read in context. Paul is trying to get across the fact that, though there was no law to break, people still died before Moses. Moses came with the law, but people still died. In other words, people died with or without the law. Death still reigned until Jesus came and released us by His redemption.

The reason I say we can only speculate about extraBiblical things, despite our gifts is exactly what was being discussed. Who is to say that Ellen White's speculations are inspired and Sister Catherine Emmerich's are not inspired except they be tested by Scripture. If both contain extrBiblical info that cannot be tested by Scripture, then they are both just speculations. Of course, you CAN test prophetic message by whether or not they come to pass. If a prophet gives a prophetic message that does not come to pass, then he is not exercising the gift of prophecy. This is how most false prophets are determined. All the messages of a true prophet will come to pass. The false prophet ... like say Jeanne Dixon ... may have a percentage of accuracy but, unlike Biblical and true prophets, will not have 100 percent accuracy. Therefore, as you mentioned above, we have the duty to test the prophecies of anyone claiming to be a prophet. Otherwise, how can we say that Emmerich is wrong, or even Joseph Smith and Ellen White is right. In what way did you test Emmerich's prophecies and come to conclusion they were wrong?

So, yes, I do believe that we have gifts operable today but I do not believe we can add to nor subtract from scripture. There are many prophets in the world, what test do you use to determine what is speculation and what is truth?

Nannette wrote:I do believe that believers have gifts and dreams but I don't believe they are inspired as Scripture and have to be tested against the inspired Word.

Many good Christians believe that the same Spirit that inspired the Bible writers is guiding true believers, that the visible church is in great apostasy today (as foretold in Scripture) and that God has important confusion-busting new light from the Scriptures for those who are willing to receive it. Even Seventh-day Adventists believe that the Bible is the standard for all true doctrines and reforms.

Nannette wrote:whatever dreams or revelations anyone might have after the Bible record is only speculation.

No. If a dream or revelation is from God, then it's for equipping the saints for the works of service and the building up of the body of Christ (Ephesians 4:12). God's policy of continued empowerment for the church through spiritual gifts remains in effect "until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:13).

Nannette wrote:For this purpose we are warned not to add to nor subtract from the Scriptural record.

Revelation 22:18-19 is a clear warning against modifying, altering, changing, the Biblical text, specifically, the book of Revelation. God is not denying or disallowing continuing guidance, instruction and edification of the church through progressive revelation.

Nannette wrote:What test do you use to determine what is speculation and what is truth?

There are many Biblical texts that answer this question. See my responses in the thread, Ellen G. White - How to Test a Prophet

If you have light from Scripture that contradicts my view, then you are very welcome to prove your claim in the Mars Hill forum.

Hello!
you have a devil amongst you I'm agnostic... maybe you can try to convert me?
I was born in mexico (lived there 11 years, moved to NC), raised as a catholic, don't agree with what the bible says because i'm a science nut, and the more I talk about religion the more convinced I get that it's not right. We shall see what my point of view is later eh?
what I'm wondering is if you'll allow an agnostic like me to chat here... I'm new so I don't know if i'm the only agnostic here or what.
EDIT: after some reading I see you're opposed to censorship and will allow "evil" lol. great!

Eugene allows it but you might find your posts relegated to areas of the forum that are designated for error according to the beliefs of the ministry. Or to put it another way they don't censor, but they do reserve certain forums only for their distinctive teachings. Really it is a fairly logical system once you get used to it. What I do is log in and check any new posts. It generally informs you of moved ones as well so I can find anything that has been reorganized.

He doesn't mind accurate labels either! And since you have willingly labeled yourself you spare yourself the process of his evaluation.

Hi all,
I'm Jess Muñoz a sudent of Scripture and another Sabbath keeper. I first came to know the word of God in 3rd grade when I went to an SDA school in Mississippi. I am not a baptized member of an Adventist church although I do keep the Sabbath. Unfortunately, I have not been a Sabbath believer for very long. I came to accept the Sabbath through personal research and studying the Bible, because in the 5 years that I attended the Adventist school not once was any convincing evidence presented from scripture against anti-Sabbath arguments. The teachers in the small school had a relatively limited knowledge of Scripture in my opinion. Instead of encouraging scripture-searching, the logical thing to do would be to ask "the Pastor" for the answers. That defeats the whole point of reading the Bible. My schoolmates were truly lukewarm Laodiceans. Anyways, I discovered this website some timE ago and was quite impressed by Eugene Shubert's
"Great Facts on Plagiarism" article.

Hi Jess,

You seem to have a good understanding of Seventh-day Adventists. I trust that you weren't terribly hurt by their terrible witness. Hopefully you will have a richer spiritual experience on this forum.

I appreciate you liking my Great Facts On Plagiarism.

Praise God!!
I am sooooo glad to find this websight!
I have been reading much and here and there.
I am still unclear about much stuff. But I do like what I have read so far for the most part. There is still so much to read here!

Allow me to introduce myself. I am a Seventh Day Adventist. I have a love for God that directly reacts to HIM and not most of His dear Saints.
We all are growing in our own way and God takes you where your at(WhereEver that may be when u Find HIM -well... He actually GOT you!) ,well anyhoo.....! all that stuff. God takes you higher(if u let HIM) in Loving the people around you and esp. family to a degree that you thought u were not capable of. To such forgiveness and gratefulness!!! amen amen! O imagine loving and seeing others around you. Truly seeing them. Indeed
I am a father to a 21 year old chip off the old block. I work in maintenace at a truckstop. I live in a very small cottage like town surrounded by cows,sheeps and rednecks. YeeeHawww!

I love fellowship! My cute,lovely,smalltown, country church isnt about connection and fellowship. O dont get me wrong! They do have fellowship dinner every and each Sabbath with the most delightful dainties and fruits,nuts,and bonbons. And they vigorously hold up the Stand--ds! amen to all. But for me I need more from my fellow churchmembers who I have known many most of my life.
Here by you all kind folks responses and posts to each other I feel I get to know some of you. And for now-that has to be my fellowship!
God bless
Im still reading so i havnt dared to post anywhere else as of yet!
God bless!

aDandy4JESUS

aDandy4JESUS wrote:I am still unclear about much stuff.

I don't know much about KaleeFORN-Yaaah, cows, sheep and rednecks. But this is a good "websight" to get clarity on important issues, to explore progressive ideas and to have questions answered on challenging Bible topics.

G'day there folks!!!!
I am a Kiwi Downunder and have been a Seventh Day Adventist most of my life.
I am not 100% sure if I belong here or not? but I guess time will tell.
What do you mean by a Reform-minded Seventh-Day Adventist...?
Not sure if I have come across any such members in my local small country church...or any of the BIGGer congregational memberships of Seventh Day Adventist churches for that matter.
For me, Scripture is plain enough to understand and He knows that I too have spent time wandering in the 'wilderness' and now choose something better, something lasting..something that has tremendous hope and courage for this difficult life that we are all making our way through.How comforting to know that we are not alone but we can claim precious promises from the Bible for ourselves each and every day of our lives. We can rest with the assurance that we do not have to travel this way alone.


Yvonne...just a new member

G'day Yvonne. I didn't know what you meant by calling yourself a Kiwi. I had to look it up. So you're a New Zealander. I love your accent. Welcome to this forum.

To answer your question, a Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist is someone who believes in The Manifesto of Reform-Minded Seventh-Day Adventists. In that manifesto, Ellen White wrote that, "While we will endeavor to keep the 'unity of the Spirit' in the bonds of peace, we will not with pen or voice cease to protest against bigotry."

Howdy! Waldo here. My friends call me Johnny C. I'm tucked away in the foothills of the Appalachians in North Georgia. I was directed to this site today when someone on another board provided the link regarding a discussion we were having on the three unclean spirits like frogs. I'm fairly certain she'd never have provided the link had she realized it was SDA related. Haven't brought that to her attention yet as I've been reading here for much of the day. You are a fascinating group and I believe I may have some stimulating thoughts for discussion. If I may, here are a few topics I'd be especially interested in going over with you:

1) After many years I have come to realize I was baptized into the SDA church and not into Chirst. Haven't been in a church in over twenty years aside from weddings and funerals.

2) There is One God and He Only is the Godhead.

3) Christ was in the tomb for three days and three nights. Not a part of three days and three nights but a full three days and three nights. He was not called forth from the grave on a Sunday morning rather, He came forth in the end of the Sabbath as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week. Therefore, the Sunday resurrection doctrine is no excuse for anyone to profess Sunday as the Sabbath. How does anyone get 72 hours out of sundown Friday to sunrise Sunday? Also, there is nothing sacred about Easter. If anything, it is bold worship of the ruler of this world.

4) The SDA church is as much a part of Babylon as any other Protestant church, the Catholic church or any other religious movement in the world. Christ has declared that satan will deceive the WHOLE world.

5) Ellen White, Spirit of Prophecy?..

6) The testimony of Jesus can be summed up in two words; Worship God!

7) The one true church and the 144,000.

That's about it for my introduction. Kindly direct me to the appropriate threads and I'll meet you there. Thanks. Until then,

Respectfully,

Johnny C ("C" is for copesetic)

Waldo wrote:If I may, here are a few topics I'd be especially interested in going over with you:

1) After many years I have come to realize I was baptized into the SDA church and not into Chirst. Haven't been in a church in over twenty years aside from weddings and funerals.

Hi Waldo. Welcome to this forum. I believe that your proposed topic number 1 hasn't been discussed before but I don't think what you just said would be a great surprise to most Adventists. I thought that I was being baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist Church also when I was baptized against my will at the age of 13. I also believe that there is a large number of Adventists that don't go to church. You are certainly free to start a thread on any topic you like. I'm not sure where you should start such a thread however because everythingimportant.org is devoted to important topics and I don't see the importance of the topic as you have explained it.

Waldo wrote:2) There is One God and He Only is the Godhead.

I believe that I'm way ahead of you on that. I wrote The Trinity Is A Mystery Because We Insist That It Is and discussed it here. So I wonder if you have anything new to say about the One God that hasn't already been said.

Waldo wrote:3) Christ was in the tomb for three days and three nights. Not a part of three days and three nights but a full three days and three nights. He was not called forth from the grave on a Sunday morning rather, He came forth in the end of the Sabbath as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week. Therefore, the Sunday resurrection doctrine is no excuse for anyone to profess Sunday as the Sabbath. How does anyone get 72 hours out of sundown Friday to sunrise Sunday? Also, there is nothing sacred about Easter. If anything, it is bold worship of the ruler of this world.

Samuele Bacchiocchi has written a whole book on this topic so I wonder if you have read the book and can answer his arguments. I don't think that a thread on that topic would be interesting unless you addressed Bacchiocchi's interpretation, which, of course, summarizes what Adventists believe.

Waldo wrote:4) The SDA church is as much a part of Babylon as any other Protestant church, the Catholic church or any other religious movement in the world. Christ has declared that satan will deceive the WHOLE world.

The closest thread on that subject would probably be, Gospel presentations for medieval Seventh-day Adventists.

Waldo wrote:5) Ellen White, Spirit of Prophecy?

There may already be a good thread on that topic. See Ellen G. White - How to Test a Prophet.

Waldo wrote:6) The testimony of Jesus can be summed up in two words; Worship God!

That doesn't even sound correct. Please see the thread, Spirit of Prophecy (SOP).

Waldo wrote:7) The one true church and the 144,000.

That sounds like it might be interesting. Please state your thesis in a new thread on Mars Hill.

Hello,

Couldn't even tell you how I ended up here, but did a google for independent sda's in northeast texas.

Was an sda. Left a long time ago now. Plowed through all the garbage and I'm not into looking back. But, in looking for fellowship here, if anyone knows of any home churches or other relatively sound independents in north east texas, I'd appreciate knowing where they are. There is not even an sda church in the county I am in (not that I would attend) so I imagine finding independents would be difficult, at best.

Mr. Shubert, no offense to you, but I would not be into the stuff you are claiming as new light. I remain more orthodox in my theology. I just have no use for Romanism, changes of doctrine, and other nonsense which the denomination has become saturated with.

Please accept my apology for barging in here when all my wife and I are looking for is some live fellowship. Hi-lite "live," too. Don't want to be around ax grinders, complainers or other slices of sda dead weight. Been there. Done that. Long since past it now. Please, do not send us into that kind of miasma. I'm having a hard enough time dealing with Texas as it is, let alone adding to it the stress of sda bellyachers. Just send me to a group of Protestants with decent principles who love to sing and get real as human beings as sinners in need of a Saviour who believe in victory over sin. We'll take it from there. Unless, of course, no such creatures exist yet; which I regard as highly possible at this point in time, all things observed and considered.

Courage in the Lord.