A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 14 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:04 am Post subject: The Sabbath: the Seal of God
I find it interesting that Nehemiah (the Old Testament prophet), admonished his flock when they began to buy and sell on the Sabbath. I relate this notion to the verses in the book of Revelation that state those who have the Seal of God will not be able to buy and sell. It's like the saying: "the Old Testament is the New concealed, and the New Testament is the Old revealed."
With a the possibility of a Sunday law being instituted - first in America then the World - making it the "official" holy day (just like the beast did back in AD 326), then Saturday could be made the main day of commerce.
I don't know these things for certain, I just wanted to make testament that the Bible proves how important the Sabbath is, and how it shows that by recognising it, we are recognising the true God. _________________ And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. Rom 8:23.
Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:20 pm Post subject: Is the Sabbath the Seal of God?
I don't know if I am posting this in the correct place of the forum. I tried to locate the instructions dealing with this, but failed to find them. If I am transgressing "Sacred" territory reserved for others, please, forgive me!
This is my humble understanding of the Seal of God: Common sense dictates that the Seal of God must be directly related to the Mark of the Beast. Actually it has to do with character. The seal of God identifies those who resemble the character of God. The Mark of the Beast identifies those whose characters resemble the character of the Beast. Beasts of prey engage in attacking and destroying their innocent victims. Those who bear the seal of God do the opposite.
Now think: Who is currently persecuting and killing the innocent? During the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church did persecute and killed innocent Christians whom Rome labelled as heretics. Is Rome doing this today? I do not think so. So who bears the Mark of the Beast today? Who is targetting and destroying the innocent? Can abortionists fit this description? I think they can. Of course, the Sudanese government that persecutes, rapes, and kills Christians, may fit that description as well! What about the Pope? Is John Paul II persecuting and killing the innocent? I do not think so. On the contrary, he is adamant in defense of the unborn.
Therefore, if you are interested in discovering who bears the Seal of God and the Mark of the Beast today, look at the character of people, institutions, and governments. This is my humble opinion!
Understanding the underlying Old Testament Allusions within the book of Revelation can indeed be a key to understanding the passage.
In the particular case of the Seal of God and the Mark of the Beast one of the key allusions is to the vision of Ezekiel in chapters 8 and 9. Here we see an account of the false worship of the Israelites, practiced by the leaders, in the temple itself. God pronounces judgement on them, and in the vision that Ezekiel sees this judgement is immediate. It foreshadows the actual judgement brought about during the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon.
Here is the key part of the passage as it regards the Seal of God.
Quote:
EZE 8:17 He said to me, "Have you seen this, son of man? Is it a trivial matter for the house of Judah to do the detestable things they are doing here? Must they also fill the land with violence and continually provoke me to anger? Look at them putting the branch to their nose! 18 Therefore I will deal with them in anger; I will not look on them with pity or spare them. Although they shout in my ears, I will not listen to them."
EZE 9:1 Then I heard him call out in a loud voice, "Bring the guards of the city here, each with a weapon in his hand." 2 And I saw six men coming from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with a deadly weapon in his hand. With them was a man clothed in linen who had a writing kit at his side. They came in and stood beside the bronze altar.
EZE 9:3 Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the LORD called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side 4 and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."
EZE 9:5 As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. 6 Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.
As you notice the imagery of a mark in the forehead of those who are faithful to God was already seen here. And it is clear from the vision and subsequent fulfillment of the vison that
a. the mark is not a literal mark
b. The mark is a sign of loyalty to God, and grieving over apostasy and false worship.
In revelation we likewise see God placing a sign of loyalty on those who are faithful to Him amid widespread apostasy. The remnant concept was well firmly anchored in the OT where God had a group that were faithful to Him.
Compare the above vision with this of John's in Revelation 7. Again we see the idea that those who are spared are those who receive the Seal of God.
Quote:
Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God."
The mark of the beast is likewise the sign of loyalty to false worship. In fact we see in Revelation a false trinity (dragon, beast, false prophet), a false lamb (lamb-like beast), a false worship and a false seal, which is the Mark of the Beast.
While we often say that the Sabbath is the seal of God, mainly because it is one of the contested issues of loyalty, it is more true to say that the seal is a sign of one who is completely loyal to God in all things and who grieves and lament over all of the detestable things done in the land.
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:30 am Post subject: The Mark of the Beast
If you consider the passage you are quoting, it seems very clear to me that the emphasis is on the detestable things that are done in it, which has to do with behavior and character:
Quote:
"Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."
Those who receive the Seal of God lament the detestable things that are done in it, and those who receive the Mark of the Beast evidently engage in the detestable things that are done in it. The list of detestable things that are done in the world is very long for me to attempt to include it here.
___________
The context is the detestable things done in the temple, not the world.
Edited by the Moderator
Mark this point with care: Those who receive the pure mark of truth, wrought in them by the power of the Holy Ghost, represented by a mark by the man in linen, are those "that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done" in the church. —Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 267.
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:36 am Post subject: The Seal of God and the Mark of the Beast
If you read carefully the text I quoted, you will discover that the detestable things that are done in it refers to the City of Jerusalem, and not to the Temple.
Quote:
"Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it." (Ezeq. 9:4)
And you may notice that the context is referring to the violence that filled the land of Israel.
Quote:
Must they also fill the land with violence and continually provoke me to anger? (Ezeq. 8:17)
Besides, the Church of God is not a building. Buildings do not sin. Church members sin. The Body of Christ is made up of people. Jesus stated that the House of God was turned into a Den of Robers. The sin of fornication, adultery, and abortion is committed by people, not by buildings! These sins are as prevalent among church members as by the world.
In Old Testament times, the sacrifice of children to Moloch was done inside temples, and made part of their worship. Now it is done inside abortion clinics. The fact that child killing is no longer an integral part of the temple ritual does not make it more acceptable than before. The end result is the same: dead children, and it represents an abomination to the Lord!
I hope my answer is not edited again! I am printing a copy of my response in order to monitor what happens to it.
Since we are dealing with a parallel it is instructive to note that
a. The text seems to indicate those in all of Jerusalem.
b. Ellen White was talking about the APPLICATION of the parallel, not the actual facts of the text.
c. The worst sins were done by the leaders in the very temple of God.
d. This led all of the people astray.
e. The reason for this being applied to the grieving over things done IN THE CHURCH is that the people of Jerusalem were God's chosen people, the Jews. In the parallel we are looking at they WOULD be the church, while the gentiles would be those outside of it. Therefore, it is indeed with those in the church that we are to be grieved. Paul says the same in I Corin. 6. He EXPECTS non-believers to sin, but says we should judge those who claim to be believers but commit open sin.
However, note that in the greater context of Revelation the parallel of Israel is for the whole world. Ie....just as the covenant curses and blessings were experienced by Israel, so the whole world is experiencing them in Revelation. And in fact, the whole world other than the elect (those withing God's people who actually are faithful, His sealed ones) will receive the mark of the beast.
The point is that the righteous will be most grieved over what is done in the church as the people of God ought to be following Him, but are not. It is a greater sin, just as those who were to be leading then were sacrificing in the very Temple confines.
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:13 pm Post subject: Larger Meaning of the Seal of God
I just finished reading your comments, and I think that I agree with you. The only thing I would like to add is that "Seals" are symbols that represent something that is beyond the seal itself. A flag stands for the whole country. A presidential seal stands for the president and the office he occupies. Likewise, the Sabbath is a pointer to our special relationship with the Creator and Savior.
It means we validate God's respect for the sacredness of human life. E. G. White states that Jesus would have died for just one lost soul. My question is: Would he have died for the unborn child? Would he have stooped down to save for eternity the life of the unborn? I think he would, because he said: "Let the children come to me." How can they come to Jesus if we snuff their lives before they have a chance to take their first breath? And he stated that he did come that we might have an "Abundant Life." How can the unborn achieve an abundant life if we deprive them of life itself?
He also stated that our final destiny will not be based on whether we worship him on the correct day of the week, but rather on the way we treat the least (see Matt. 25). I have read the Gospel many times, and I do not recall a single time where he says that our final destiny will be determined by our Sabbath observance. If you know of the existence of such a text, I would like to know.
Now, do not misunderstand me on this point. I go to church on the Seventh Day; not on the First Day of the week. Nevertheless, I believe that if there is nothing behind the symbol in my life, then my religion is worthless. A sign in front of a hospital that reads 'EMERGENCY' is very helpful, but if there are no physicians and nurses staffing said emergency room, the sign is a distraction and totally worthless.
I you want to read more along these lines, I suggest you click at the link listed below, which will take you to a website with a similar format as the one you are surfing right now.
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 68 Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject:
In this discussion on the meaning of the Seal of God, no one has mentioned Ephesians 4:30 which makes it clear (to me, at least) that the seal of God is the Holy Spirit.
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:54 am Post subject: The Seal of God & the Sabbath
Good point! Now, what is the role of the Holy Spirit? The Bible tells that God's Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, and transforms a sinner into a saint: someone who delights in behaving decently towards God and his fellow human beings. Now the question: Is the unborn a human being? If you anwer "Yes," then we are in perfect agreement.
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 68 Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: The Seal of God & the Sabbath
Nic Samojluk wrote:
Good point! Now, what is the role of the Holy Spirit? The Bible tells that God's Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, and transforms a sinner into a saint: someone who delights in behaving decently towards God and his fellow human beings. Now the question: Is the unborn a human being? If you anwer "Yes," then we are in perfect agreement.
What is your definition of a human being? This will help me to answer your question.
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:06 pm Post subject: The Sabbath & the Seal of God
According to my Bible the Sabbath is a sign or symbol of our allegiance to God. In Exodus 31: 13, I find the following statement:
Quote:
You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you ... so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.
And in Ephesians 4:30 we find this other statement which connects our holyness, or sanctification with the Holy Spirit:
Quote:
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Then we have a text in Revelation 7:3, which talks about the sealing of God's people:
Quote:
Hurt not the earth ... till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
And finally we find in Revelation 12: 17 that those that were sealed and became part of God's Remnant were persecuted by the dragon:
Quote:
And the dragon was wroth with the ... remnant ... which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
These Bible verses show us that the Sabbath, the Seal of God, the Holy Spirit, and the keeping of God's Commandments are all connected into a one unity.
The Sabbath is God's seal, which the Holy Spirit imprints on our foreheads [or minds] and is made visible by our keeping of God's commandments; and do not forget that one of those commandments says: "You shall not murder." I define murder as taking the life of an innocent human being. If you agree with me that the unborn is a human being, then we are in perfect agreement.
In answer to your question, I define a human being the way nature defines it: an unmistakable DNA imprint, unique in the sense that no other human being can be confused with it.
Please, do not split my posting. "What God has joined, let not man put asunder!"
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