A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum   In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  An Open Letter to Tim Poirier of the Ellen G. White Estate           Forum Index -> Midrange Controversy View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Eugene Shubert the new William Miller Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 1082 Location: Richardson Texas Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:00 pm    Post subject: An Open Letter to Tim Poirier of the Ellen G. White Estate Subject: Is there any support for the Investigative Judgment from Ellen White's visions? Dear Mr. Poirier, You have always been very helpful to me in the past with questions about Sister White's writings that I couldn't find the answer to. I now have another question that requires your extensive knowledge of Ellen White's writings. I would very much like to hear your very respectable opinion. I'd like to know if our doctrine of the Investigative Judgment is entirely an interpretation of Scripture or if there is support of it from the visions of Ellen G. White. I am not expressing any doubts about Sister White's inspiration. There is no question that Ellen White believed in the IJ and wrote of it in The Great Controversy. I'm only very eager to learn of the specific details of the Investigative Judgment that very likely has been revealed to Ellen White by direct revelation. Which of the many visions of Ellen White reveal specific insights into the Investigative Judgment? Could you send me such a list? Thank you. Eugene Shubert Back to top   '); //--> Eugene Shubert the new William Miller Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 1082 Location: Richardson Texas Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Is there any support for the Investigative Judgment from Ellen White's visions? Tim Poirier wrote: Thank you for your message. I don't have a list of visions about the IJ to provide you, but as to what "specific details" were revealed to her, I need your help to know what you have in mind. What kinds of details, apart from the fact that the cases of the righteous dead and living saints come into judgment, are you looking for? Dear Tim, Thanks for asking for clarification. I am most interested in reading every detail that Sister White received by direct revelation on the sanctuary and the Day of Atonement and wish to compare it to the 24th fundamental Adventist doctrine that is believed today. I am interested in Sister White's direct revelations because of the accusations that Ellen White was just summarizing denominational authors. There are 4 sentences in the 24th fundamental belief that seem at best only superficially connected to Ellen White's revelations on the work of Christ in the Heavenly Sanctuary. 1. "The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection." 2. "It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom." 3. "This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus." 4. "It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom." From what I've read in the writings of Ellen White on the Sanctuary Doctrine, it seems that the original Spirit of prophecy emphasis concerned a final atonement and a cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary because of the record of sin. I believe it's clear that the original focus is now secondary to the concept of vindication. I don't see the vindication of God as the primary purpose of the Investigative Judgment in Ellen White's writings. From my recollection of church history, it seems that Desmond Ford gave Adventists such a severe beating on the Investigative Judgment doctrine—arguing that it is without purpose or Biblical supportthat the church has retreated into a shell and has manufactured this new doctrine, which they think has better support. How do you feel about that and can I quote you? Do you believe that there is reasonable support for sentences 1-4 from Sister White's visions and from her other writings that focused specifically on explaining the Sanctuary message? May God bless you richly, Eugene Shubert Back to top   '); //--> Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First          Forum Index -> Midrange Controversy All times are GMT - 5 Hours Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum Heaven----------------Administration Midheaven----------------The Everlasting GospelHigh Ranking RevelationMidrange ControversyNovice ClassFlight School Trainees High Mountains----------------The Summit of ExcellenceMount CarmelMars Hill The Plain of Megiddo----------------Location Spot for the Battle of ArmageddonThe Dragon, Beast and False Prophet Convention CenterSubtle Misunderstanding Green Valleys----------------Picnic Area The World----------------University HallTown HallBillboardLibraryNewsroomFamily RoomCourtroomJail Hell----------------The Bottomless Pit  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group