CULT-ure!

Fortitude Travesser · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:02 pm Post subject:

We can't be left alone because, if our testimony is true, then the world is over. Those who love the world know this; and they are doing everything in their power to combat it.
_________________
Isaiah 26:20-21

T. Doty · hopefully saved by grace Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 28

Hi Timothy,
I was wondering, exactly what is your testimony?
I'm confused about it.

Fortitude Travesser · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:50 am Post subject:

What is there to be confused about? I have told you enough that even a fool would understand.
_________________
Isaiah 26:20-21

T. Doty · hopefully saved by grace Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 28

Since I'm such a fool, maybe you would like to respond to my e-mail infront of everyone, and let them judge for themselves. You haven't answered any questions that I've asked. You and Wayne both talk in circles and fail to provide any biblical support for what you say. Incidently, according to the Bible, it is a sin to say anything that isn't edifying to another person. You and your Messiah claim to be sinless. What is you excuse for the sin? My responce to your insult remains the same, I love you in Yeshua, and I still will continue to pray for you. I still want to be your friend. I am open to all that you have to say. Love in Yeshua
Hi Timothy,
Thank you for your response. Please understand that my e-mails are
not intended in any way, to be an attack on you. I truly am looking for
clarification on what Wayne and yourself are claiming.
Firstly, I would like to say that I do love you in Yeshua. Also, you
are right, to know God is to know love, because God is love. (1John 4:7,8)
To Truly experience God's love you must be born of his spirit; John 3:3, and that spirit, is available to all, who will answer the knock on the door of
their heart. I answered that knock many years ago, and as a result I have a relationship with the Most High, El Shaddai, through his son, Yeshua.
Secondly, I believe that if you look in 1John 2:19-22 NKJV, and put
the text all together, you will have a better understanding of what is
meant. As it is stated in verse 22, "Who is a liar but he who denies that
Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist that denies the Father and the Son."
Jesus himself, said that to deny him was to deny the Father, for they are
one and the same. Although it is still true today, John was addressing the
attitude or spirit of the people who had rejected Yeshua as the Messiah.
They had the spirit of the Antichrist, or in common day terms , they were
against Christ. The Antichrist and the spirit of the Antichrist, although
they are connected, are two separate entities.
To better understand this, let me explain. Many believe that the
appearance of the Antichrist is a Christian concept, having nothing to do
with Judaism, but this is not true. The ancient Rabbis wrote about the
Antichrist; under the name of Armulis, in many of their ancient
commentaries. It is an ancient Jewish belief, that an antichrist will appear
on the scene prior to the coming of the Messiah. This Antichrist will
actually be in human form, but possessed by Satan,. The Ancient Jews belief in the Antichrist, is documented in the Midrashim and Targums of old. As I said before, they refer to this being as Armulis.
It is common knowledge that most Midrashim, before committed to
writing, were oral and were handed down for hundreds of years. So, even
prior to the coming of Yeshua, the coming of an Antichrist, was an accepted doctrinal truth among the Jews. This doctrinal truth dates back to the time of the Major Prophets. i.e. Isaiah, Ezekiel, Zechariah ect. Here are some examples of ancient writings on the subject. ". . . Armulis . . . will rule over the entire world, and there will be nobody to stand up against him. And all those who don't believe in him will die by his cruel sword. And he will come to the land of Israel with ten kings, to Jerusalem . . . and then there will be trouble in Israel the like of which never was in the world. "Sefer Zerubbabel, BhM 2:54-57 "At that time the Israelites will be in great trouble. Some of them will hide themselves in caves and pits, and those who remain of them will flee to the wilderness of Ammon and Moab. Then Armulis, the Son of Satan, will go to the wilderness of Moab." Midrash, Marmorstein. REJ 52, p. 183. If you search, there are many more references similar to these.
Now, may I ask you a Question? Do you believe that you and Wayne are anointed, or do you believe that he is the Second coming of Christ? All true children of God are anointed and sealed by the Holy Spirit, but Wayne has stated that he is the Messiah in the flesh. He has also stated that the Spirit of Michael the Arch Angel has possessed him. So, is it safe to assume that you believe Michael the arch Angel is the Messiah? Would you share with me the scripture that would support this belief?
I don't know how extensive your knowledge is on this subject, but
may I share with you what I have learned over the years. First of all, it is
important to know, the dogma, that Michael the Archangel is the God that
possessed Yeshua, was in no way an apostolic belief. The original disciples
of Christ did not teach this concept. This dogma originated in the mid
1800s. It was brought to the forefront as a doctrinal stance, by Nelson H.
Barbour and Charles Taze Russell. In case you don't know who these two
individuals were, I will explain. Nelson H. Barbour, was a Prophetic Seventh Day Adventist Evangelist who lived during this time period. He, like William Miller, claimed to have been enlightened, about the date of the second coming of Christ. Charles Taze Russell is best known for birthing the organization known the as the International Bible Students, known today as the Jehovah Witnesses. All three of these men, prophesied on the time of the second coming of Christ.
Now, let me explain how and why this dogma doesn't line up with the
word of God. Although there are many, for the sake of time and length of
this e-mail, I'm going to explain the scriptures which best illustrate why
this dogma is false. In Genesis 1:26'27 NKJV ". . . Let us make man in our
image, according to our likeness," "So God created man in his own image; in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." Now if we compare these two verses , we might say that they appear to contradict each other, but this is not the case. My point is that in verse 26, God is revealing his plural, or part of his triune nature, as compared to God being in the singular tense in verse 27. Let me give you more Biblical evidence. Deuteronomy 6:4 NKJV, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One!" The Hebrew word for God used here is Elohim. Elohim is plural in nature and is literally translated Gods. Now we know that there is only one true God, to know this all we have to do is look back at the verse, but here God is explaining to the Jews that he is plural in nature. This is an important point, so please let me continue. Isaiah 41:4 NKJV ". . . I the Lord, am the first; and with the last I am he." Compare this with Revelation 22:12,13,16,20 (in part and in whole) "And behold I am coming quickly" "I am the Alpha and the Omega, . . . the first and the last." "I Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches." "He who testifies to these things says, Surely I am coming quickly. Amen. Even so, come Lord Jesus. Here God and Jesus are called the first and the last. They are one and the same. Consider Jude :9 "Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the Devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring about him a reviling accusation, but said, the Lord rebuke you!" as compared to Luke 4:8,12 NKJV "Get behind me, Satan! For it is written, you shall worship the Lord your God ,and him only you shall serve." "And Jesus answered and said to him, " It has been said, you shall not tempt the Lord your God." Two things pop out of these two scriptures. First, Satan is more powerful than Michael the archangel at this time. Michael will be given more power in the end to bind Satan, but as exhibited here he needed to rebuke Satan in the name of the Lord. Jesus, on the other hand simply said, "Get behind me, Satan!" he gave Satan a direct order. Secondly, While Satan is trying to temp Jesus, he said," You shall not temp the Lord your God." In other words he was saying, offer me anything you want, but I am your God
and you shall not temp me.
Let me assure you, I am open to hearing any scripture that you know
of, that proves me wrong.
In closing, I would like to say that I judge or condemn no one. Only
Elohim has the right to judge. I only judge the claim that Wayne makes, and that judgment, I have based on the word of God, not a feeling. I also have the spirit of Christ living within me, for I am born of his spirit. I have,
or hold no animosity toward either one of you, nor do I wish to belittle you
in any way. I only wish to speak the truth in love, and understand how
someone can support such a claim as you have made.
Again, I say to you in all sincerity, I love you in Yeshua H'Mashiach. May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob shine his love down upon
you, and may his spirit reveal his truth to you daily.
Feel free to e-mail me any time. Yaweh bless you

Fortitude Travesser · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:14 am Post subject:

Mr. Doty,

Yes, you are a fool for trying to publicly intimidate me without providing the public with the original, unedited letter I sent you before you sent me this one. I have no desire to be your friend for you operate like a snake. As it is written, "Can two walk together except they be agreed?". You have made it very clear that you don't agree with the testimony of the appearing of Messiah that Michael and I proclaim and that is your and everyone else's privilege. If you or anyone else want clarification, you could read what is published on our site (www.travesser.com). As I have told you before, I could comment on all 33,173 Bible verses and that will not change your unconverted heart.

You say that you have the Spirit of Christ living in you yet you privately confessed to me that you're a sinner. Does Christ sin? Did Christ in Jesus sin? Why would Christ in you sin? Christ in me doesn't sin and He is in agreement with Christ in everyone else. These issues are easily resolved when one understands the plan of salvation as God Himself revealed it through the Old Testament sanctuary system. This is contrary to the human ideas that flow from Babylon's pulpits of sewage.

You say that the Bible says that unedifying statements constitute sin. Was Jesus (whom you claim to know so much about) being edifying to the Pharisees when He was calling them snakes, liars, hypocrites, and that they were of their father the devil?? Neither will I apologize for what I have said to you regardless as to how insulted you feel. You are of your father the devil and I have nothing more to say to you.
_________________
Isaiah 26:20-21

T. Doty · hopefully saved by grace Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 28

Hi Timothy, I'm sorry about my oversite. I choose again to respond to you insults with love, Because God is love, and he who knows God, knows love. It is true that Jesus did chastise the Pharesees and Sadusees, but he still loved them. Do you love me? Are you able to say that infront of all that may see?
Per your objection, I have provided the public with what you wished. If you feel that I have tryed to intimidate you then I apologize. If you feel
intimidated, then it is probably because of the inability to respond to your claim with biblical evidence. You have responded the same way that Wayne responds, with insults that acompany a lack of scriptural support for your claim. You are a sinner, just like I am, and if you refuse to admit that, then you have a serious spiritual problem. Our rightousness is as filthy rags. Only God is holy and without sin, and neither you or Wayne are God.

Mr Doty,

After reading your letter, I went back and read what you said on this forum in response to my letter that Mr. Schubert "incarcerated". In response to that, YES, I REMEMBER YOU. And yes, I do have an answer as to why I believe Michael has appeared in Wayne. It is because Michael has appeared in me and the connection is spontaneous. The only reason I didn't answer you back then is because of your unethical methods (SPAMMING) of communicating with my brethren and I.

You say that you love me. This is a lie. God is love, and the only people who can truly love are those who can bear witness to God's presence in their soul sanctuary. I have yet to hear anything close to that from you. All that has come from you is weeping and gnashing of teeth. This doesn't mean that I'm offended. Christians dosn't experience offense, because Christ doesn't.

You are correct in that you are a sinner by judging Wayne as a lost soul because His testimony is inconsistent with your ideas. If you understood the plan of salvation as God revealed it through the sanctuary system (as compared to man's ideas), you would have victory over sin and would recognize the appearing of Messiah. It is written, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him (free from sin); for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2.

You are also correct in that the spirit of anti-christ is strong. The spirit of anti-christ is that spirit that denies that Christ has appeared in the flesh (II John 7). Christ has appeared in the flesh of Jesus, Wayne and I and many others; and you deny that.

God may have all the answers, but I know everything I need to from the Father Himself as it is written, "But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things." I John 2:20. The word unction means anointing. The word anointing means Christ/Messiah.

I wish you well,
Fortitude

T. Doty · hopefully saved by grace Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 28

Also Wayne, if you understood the Old Testiment and ancient Hebrew customs then the errors in your articles wouldn't exist.
Love in Yeshua

wandering nomad · Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 8:45 am Post subject:

I've only really browsed this thread, so my comments might not be totally in sync. with topic, but I'd like to talk about false messiahs.

Let the reader be cautioned that anybody claiming to be Christ who appears among the people is a fake even if he radiates brilliant light and performs miracles. When the genuine Christ returns, He will be visible in the sky and He will not touch the ground, no, He will not even come close to it.
_________________
And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. Rom 8:23.

T. Doty · hopefully saved by grace Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 28

Hi Wandering Nomad,
I agree with you, but I am afraid that certain individuals do not. You see, Wayne Brent professes to be the Second Coming of Christ. The sad thing about it is that he not only deceives himself, but he also deceives a number of other misguided souls into worshiping him as their Messiah. He bases his claim on a so called revelation that he received from God. He believes somewhat as the Jehovah Witnesses do, that Michael the Arch Angel posessed Christ and now he has posessed him. He provides no true scriptural support. He just rambles on about how anyone who doesn't follow him, isn't able to because they lack the true spirit of God. It's sad and it's eternally distructive to his followers that don't understand the true Word of God. Pray for their souls.
To Wayne or Timothy: Am I correct in my discription of what you believe? Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Veridium · is under review Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 9

Sorry for bumping what appears to be this dead thread, but I want to take issue with some of the things here. I found this site through a search engine while researching New Mexico cults. I will confess up front, I am dangerous to the beliefs of this site, for I have seen that God has reached out to people around the world, and that is manifested in the various religions around the world. I'm sure that's enough to get me indicted as being dangerous, so I'll leave it at that...

Veridium · is under review Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 9