A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:54 pm Post subject: Am I Trinitarian or Non Trinitarian?
Hi 3AngelsMom,
I can’t label myself a non-Trinitarian because every non-Trinitarian I know of either denies the Divinity of Jesus or the Personhood of the Third Person of the Godhead, or both. I accept both. Likewise, I shouldn’t label myself a Trinitarian because every Trinitarian I know insists on describing God in a language that I believe is decidedly misleading and unbiblical. How would you classify the theological position of my web page: www.everythingimportant.org/Godhead?
Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 15 Location: San Diego California USA
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:28 am Post subject:
Eugene,
If you believe that Jesus has life in Himself that is derived from Himself, then you are in the trinitarian camp!
What I believe, and I am COMPLETELY NON TRINITARIAN, is that the life that is in Christ is from God. Therefore, by merit of His literal Sonship by the Father, and I don't mean with Mary, He is diety because He is the SON of God.
He is not 'a god', nor is He the ONE True God. He is diety, by merit of inheritance through His Father. Just as a Prince one day becomes a King, so did He.
God Bless,
Kelly _________________ Why do we always laugh at things that aren't funny?
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:04 am Post subject: And your evidence is, what?
Kelly,
Jesus acknowledged the Father as the source of his life:
Quote:
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. John 6:57.
How do you know that this life dependence isn’t atonement related? Didn’t Jesus speak the words “I live” in the present tense? If your belief is Biblical, you then need a Scripture reference that teaches that Jesus inherited His deity before the incarnation. If there are references, please cite the ones that you believe are the clearest and most undeniable.
If you believe that Jesus has life in Himself that is derived from Himself, then you are in the trinitarian camp!
What I believe, and I am COMPLETELY NON TRINITARIAN, is that the life that is in Christ is from God. Therefore, by merit of His literal Sonship by the Father, and I don't mean with Mary, He is diety because He is the SON of God.
He is not 'a god', nor is He the ONE True God. He is diety, by merit of inheritance through His Father. Just as a Prince one day becomes a King, so did He.
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Am I Trinitarian or Non Trinitarian?
Eugene Shubert wrote:
Hi 3AngelsMom,
I can’t label myself a non-Trinitarian because every non-Trinitarian I know of either denies the Divinity of Jesus or the Personhood of the Third Person of the Godhead, or both. I accept both. Likewise, I shouldn’t label myself a Trinitarian because every Trinitarian I know insists on describing God in a language that I believe is decidedly misleading and unbiblical. How would you classify the theological position of my web page: www.everythingimportant.org/Godhead?
Eugene,
I have four items,
1.) How is it that non-trinitarians deny the divinity of Christ?
2.) Have you considered that the quote by L.E. Froom on page 422 of Movement of Destiny that says he removed or altered certain standard "works" to reflect a trinitarian bias, might imply that the current (apparent) trinitarian statements made by Ellen White were a product of the aforementioned activity?
3.) I have read a portion of your testimony on your trial at the Richardson Church. What exactly were the points of doctrine that you were in controversy over?
4.) I am wondering about your initial statement that says that the scriptures testify very few times about the deity of the holy spirit. Could you explain, or provide the scriptures in your explanation?
1.) How is it that non-trinitarians deny the divinity of Christ?
Doesn't your question depend on the meaning of the word divinity? Non-Trinitarians typically believe that Jesus is a created being of finite rank and that the Holy Spirit is a nonentity. The Jehovah's Witnesses are such a group. Their Christ is just a high-ranking angel. I define divinity to mean infinite, eternal and not derived.
Walk in the Light wrote:
2.) Have you considered that the quote by L.E. Froom on page 422 of Movement of Destiny that says he removed or altered certain standard "works" to reflect a trinitarian bias, might imply that the current (apparent) trinitarian statements made by Ellen White were a product of the aforementioned activity?
LeRoy Froom didn't say that "he removed or altered certain standard works." Froom is referring to Uriah Smith's book and books like it. The section heading is "Revision of Daniel and the Revelation Inevitable." If you don't trust Ellen White's writings, then don't depend on them. It's essential to base your understanding of God on Scripture anyway.
Walk in the Light wrote:
3.) I have read a portion of your testimony on your trial at the Richardson Church. What exactly were the points of doctrine that you were in controversy over?
Forum rules require us to stay on topic. This thread is reserved for challenging my view on the nature of the Godhead. There are already open threads on the Richardson church. Please use the search feature and find the most fitting setting so that your question will make sense in the proper context.
Walk in the Light wrote:
4.) I am wondering about your initial statement that says that the scriptures testify very few times about the deity of the holy spirit. Could you explain, or provide the scriptures in your explanation?
I like this explanation by Ellen White: "It is not essential for us to be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is. ... The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it ..." (Ellen G. White, Acts of the Apostles, pp. 51, 52). Yet for those who can discern profound truth, there are sufficiently acceptable arguments from Scripture:
“The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. ‘For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God’ (1 Corinthians 2:11).”—Manuscript Releases, vol. 20, p. 69.
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