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A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum
In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of
Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
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mannybr2003
is under review
Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2002 12:34 am Post subject: Who is the 'Little Horn' of Daniel 8? |
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| Florin Laiu wrote: |
I am sure you are right about Daniel 11:30 were LXX has ROMAIOI and Vulgate has ITALIA. However in the same time, KITTIIM was probably used in Death Sea Scrolls as a name for Romans.
I agree with D. Ford and R. Cottrell on the identity of the not-so-little horn of Daniel 8: Antiochus and Antichrist (type and antitype), the actual spiritual succession of those medieval monsters who profaned the true Sanctuary of Christianity. This kind of succession allows any other arrogant persecutor to be included in the line... |
Here is what I found in:
John 11:48 If we let him thus alone, all [men] will believe on him: and the {Romans} shall come and take away both our place and nation.
I believe the period of 2300 begins according to the prophecy found in Daniel 8:9 during the little horns intrusion into the Pleasant Land. The little horn, which if 'he really be the Romans [here referred to as a nation, which earlier topled the greeks in Macedonia, then Greece proper, then spread into Turkey, Syria, the Pleasant Land and into Egypt, therefore becoming successors to the four main subdivisions of Greecian empire. It was that pagan Rome, that gave birth in the end to the papal Rome.
So based on this, I presume that even the apostle John believes the Romans to be fulfilling the prophecy or instruments that will cause the ceasing of the visual practice of worship, aside from that the Jews had helped them by crucifying Jesus, who was, like a humble sheep that voluntarily gave his life on the cross.
That sanctuary that had two apartments is said to be also our Lords body, in which the division was removed, and turned into one room UPON his death:
Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the {veil}, that is to say, his flesh;
Ephesians 2: 14 For HE is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of {partition} [between us];
When Jesus died that veil, rent in two to remove the partition and therefore make no difference between the holy and the most holy:
Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the {veil} of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
So in conclusion, the 'bleeding time' wherein the Romans began to invade the Pleasant Land, then the daily sacrifice was taken away, and they finally succeeded in ending the rebellion of the Jews in A.D. 70 [or is it 60 yeas after?] was the earlier events when this 2300 period begun; and from thereon we can count forward to the end of time before Michael gathers his people, which is the time called in Daniel 12 as 'the ressurrection'. So if that is the point where the period of 2,300 years begins, we can count the years and find we have not arrived to the end of that period, in our present year of 2002.
So far, in my readings, I do not see that Chapter 9 of Daniel is in anyway related to Chapter 8 of Daniel. As I can see, Daniel 9 speaks only about the Jews restoration of Jerusalem, with God using the Medo Persian as an instrument [as bodyguards] to restore what Babylon had taken away from them, and who [Babylonians] also prevented them from practicing their daily/yearly sacrificial services. But that was not the point that the 2300 is referred to commence, because as Daniel 8 says, the taking away of the sacrificial system in that prophecy is to be executed by the Little Horn during its reign, and not in anyway because it was caused by Babylon.
_________________
"If you know better, then tell me more. If you're satisfied, I'd like to hear. Afterall, I'm not all knowing. I'm merely a student of this unfamiliar ocean of prophecy. " |
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Eugene Shubert
the new William Miller
Joined: 06 Apr 2002
Posts: 1073
Location: Richardson Texas
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| Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2002 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Who is the 'Little Horn' of Daniel 8? |
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| Matthew 24:15, “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet” —with the parallel passage in Luke 21:20 — is enough to establish that the little horn is at least partly Roman. The challenge is in knowing how to integrate Christ’s interpretation of Daniel with those particulars in Daniel’s book that powerfully identifies the little horn to be a single person, like Antiochus Epiphanes, who appears on the scene at the latter end of a divided Greek kingdom. |
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mannybr2003
is under review
Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 2:37 pm Post subject: Who is the 'Little Horn' of Daniel 8 |
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| Quote: |
| Matthew 24:15, “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet” —with the parallel passage in Luke 21:20 — is enough to establish that the little horn is at least partly Roman. The challenge is in knowing how to integrate Christ’s interpretation of Daniel with those particulars in Daniel’s book that powerfully identifies the little horn to be a single person, like Antiochus Epiphanes, who appears on the scene at the latter end of a divided Greek kingdom. |
I found this site that gives explanations to what you say is a challenge. I was just lucky to find them. I don't know who owns them. And I am confused about the final part of it, verse 40.
http://www.geocities.com/taanathshiloh/daniel/daniel11.html
And if the Antiochus Apiphanes was the first to desecrate the temple, and descouraged the sacrificial services in his time, which was quickly restored by the Macabees, then why is Jesus was still talking about it as if it is just about to happen? And can't it be his literal death which caused the veil to tear from top to bottom to signify the beginning of the 2,300, where we see that the daily sacrifice [Jesus] is taken away? And do we have to wait until the burning of Jerusalem by Titus, where again the Temple was burned, before this 2,300 period commence?
I wonder why it seems the U.S.A. is not included here, nor Russia, China, India and the future atomic powered Muslim countries which are not beginning to emerge with their own atomic plants, like Pakistan, Iran and Iraq. Egypt might finally join along with Saudi Arabia and Indonesia or Malaysia. I wonder what ideas you have that are relating these countries with end time prophecy. Please share some light to me.
Thank you.
_________________
"If you know better, then tell me more. If you're satisfied, I'd like to hear. Afterall, I'm not all knowing. I'm merely a student of this unfamiliar ocean of prophecy. " |
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Eugene Shubert
the new William Miller
Joined: 06 Apr 2002
Posts: 1073
Location: Richardson Texas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2002 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Manny,
That site does not explain my view. The light I have to share on Daniel is given here. |
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mannybr2003
is under review
Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2002 8:42 pm Post subject: Daniel 8 |
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If you could help me get the story in graphical format, maybe I would be able to understand and I appreciate your great effort put into this research. Is there a way its application be shown thru a linear graph showing the dates or times when the events and characters were present? Thank you.
_________________
"If you know better, then tell me more. If you're satisfied, I'd like to hear. Afterall, I'm not all knowing. I'm merely a student of this unfamiliar ocean of prophecy. " |
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Eugene Shubert
the new William Miller
Joined: 06 Apr 2002
Posts: 1073
Location: Richardson Texas
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2002 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Manny,
There is only one way to understand the prophetic drama. You must recognize the whole story. What part of my picturesque outline do you not understand? |
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