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A Different Gospel?

 
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wise seeker
The "faith" movement
The


Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 69
Location: Largo Florida

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:15 am    Post subject: A Different Gospel? Reply with quote

Then Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people. Matthew 9:35

"The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them. Matthew 11:5

These days Christendom is very confusing and seems to be full of splinter groups that appear to be cults and is losing members in large numbers. It’s a fact that in Roman Catholicism or Southern Baptists only about 25 percent of their members attend church on a regular basis and Word of Faith churches with their prosperity teachings are mushrooming in many places. It is fact that Pentecostal or Neo-Pentecostal Churches are growing at a faster rate all over the world then your typical nominal church. And in England Evangelical or nominal churches are dying breeds with Moslem temples outnumbering them! So what is the difference between your typical Evangelical Church and Word of faith Church? Is it doctrine, experience, or emotions that are the primary elements in these churches or is it another gospel as Paul talked about:

"Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. "For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. "For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. "Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.
"Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears. "So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified. "I have coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel. "Yes, you yourselves know that these hands have provided for my necessities, and for those who were with me. "I have shown you in every way, by laboring like this, that you must support the weak. And remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' " Acts 20:29-35

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-9

In order to examine the differences in Christendom we must have a baseline to measure everything against and to see where the difference are. Since the books of Acts is a historical record of the birth of the Church of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit it has to be the baseline to measure any other gospel against it. One cannot examine the book of Acts with out denying the facts that the Holy Spirit and Miracles, signs and wonders including tongues and emotional experiences were an integral part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the early church. The bible records:

"The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ-He is Lord of all- "that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. "And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. "Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, "not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. "And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. "To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins."

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" Acts 10:36-47

Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them. And the multitudes with one accord heeded the things spoken by Philip, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. For unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, came out of many who were possessed; and many who were paralyzed and lame were healed. And there was great joy in that city. Acts 8:5-8

It cannot be denied that when the early church preached Christ to the masses miracles, healing and deliverance were an integral part of the gospel. People were literally saved, healed, delivered, blessed and prospered. The bible records:

And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. Acts 2:42-47
Wholeness, well being and prosperity of the individual is not a new concept but is an integral part of the true gospel of Jesus Christ who along with His disciples went about preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people. It is safe to say that based on the Gospel and the book of Acts another gospel can be defined as any deviation from these truths and facts? So is being Evangelical preaching another gospel as miracles, signs and wonders are missing in the lives, hearts and churches of those who call themselves evangelicals?

Mind you while Evangelicals are lacking in experience and power they do have doctrines and creeds? It has been stated that "evangelical identity is found in fidelity to Scripture's authority and a shared participation in the converting experience of the gospel. As a result some have defined the Evangelical doctrine position to be that they believe:

1. The verbal, full inspiration and authority of the Scriptures.
2. God as a Trinity of three persons of one essence.
3. Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, born of the Virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit.
4. The Deity and personality of the Holy Spirit.
5. Salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone.
6. The substitutionary death of Jesus Christ for our sins.
7. The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ.
8. The resurrection of the saved to eternal life, and everlasting punishment for the lost.

It’s is a fact that you can believe and adhere to all these doctrines and still not be made whole and prosperous or go to hell because the real miracle working Jesus is not your Lord!

The Word of Faith Churches with emphasis on faith confessions, miracles, signs and wonders have been accused of speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. But are the faith churches speaking perverse things or is it the others who are false and are preaching a different gospel? If we examine what Faith churches or Full Gospel churches believe and preach we will find there are some common elements:

1. Healing and prosperity are the will of God.
2. Miracles, signs and wonders are real and are for today.
3. God’s judgments and blessings are real and for today.
4. The Holy Spirit is alive and well and moving in the earth
5. The bible is the written word of God and can be trusted and acted upon.
6. Apostles, prophets, and the gifts of the Spirit have not ceased.
7. Jesus Christ is Lord.
8. The anointing is a tangible and transferable thing!
9. According to your faith so it shall be!
10. Go in and posses the land, not hold the fort until Jesus comes.
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Eugene Shubert
the new William Miller
the new William Miller


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Location: Richardson Texas

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wise seeker wrote:
What is the difference between your typical Evangelical Church and Word of faith Church? Is it doctrine, experience, or emotions that are the primary elements in these churches or is it another gospel as Paul talked about?

Our resident expert on the Word of faith movement is David Matthieu P.P. You can read his insightful perspective directly in the Mount Carmel forum. I would characterize the essence of the Word of faith movement as the prosperity gospel, pretending signs and wonders and an astonishing absence of ordinary discernment.

wise seeker wrote:
Are the faith churches speaking perverse things or is it the others who are false and are preaching a different gospel?

Yes, the faith churches are speaking perverse things. I would say that they are so perverse in words and deeds that their shameful antics and doctrines are making the more respectable members of the church of Babylon cringe.

I regard your opening post as a mere report on the claims of the counterfeit. I would be interested in reading your factual rebuttals to the writings of David Matthieu P.P.
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wise seeker
The "faith" movement
The


Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 69
Location: Largo Florida

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Our resident expert on the Word of faith movement is David Matthieu P.P. You can read his insightful perspective directly in the Mount Carmel forum. I would characterize the essence of the Word of faith movement as the prosperity gospel, pretending signs and wonders and an astonishing absence of ordinary discernment.

SO YOU COULD NOT DENY ANYTHING THAT I HAD STATED TO BE A LIE BUT WENT OFF ON A TANGENT BECAUSE YOUR MIND IS MADE UP?

The facts remain unchanging including that the faith movement is biblical
1. Healing and prosperity are the will of God. Matthew 4:24, 3 John 1:2
2. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. Hebrews 1:12, 13:8
3. Miracles, signs and wonders are real and are for today. Hebrews 2:4,
4. God’s judgments and blessings are real and for today. 1 Peter 3:9, Revelations 2:23
5. The Holy Spirit is alive and well and moving in the earth. John 20:21, Acts 15:28, 1 John 2:27
6. The bible is the written word of God and can be trusted and acted upon. 1 Corinthians 10:1-6
7. Apostles, prophets, and the gifts of the Spirit have not ceased. 1 Corinthians 12:1-31, Ephesians 4:11-16
8. Jesus Christ is Lord. Acts 10:36, 17:24, Philippians 2:11, Revelations 17:14
9. The anointing is a tangible and transferable thing! Acts 19:1-12, 2 Timothy 1:6
10. According to your faith so it shall be! Matthew 9:22, 9:29, 15:28, Mark 5:34, 10:52, Luke 7:50, 8:25, 8:48, 17:19, 18:42
11. You can use you faith to move mountains and deal with negative things. Matthew 17:20, 21:21, Mark 11:23, Mark 4:39
12. Go in and posses the land, not hold the fort until Jesus comes. Mark 16:15-20, Luke 19:23

I myself and many others have been blessed by the faith movement with real miracles of healing, deliverance and financial prosperity. All your raving cannot deny these facts because when something reals happens to a person the views of others don't change a thing!

I would like you to disprove anything that I have stated to be a lie!
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Eugene Shubert
the new William Miller
the new William Miller


Joined: 06 Apr 2002
Posts: 1081
Location: Richardson Texas

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 4:52 pm    Post subject: As you requested Reply with quote

wise seeker,

The Word faith movement is a lie. It’s no tangent to label it a counterfeit. Nor is there shame in knowing facts and already having reached truthful conclusions. I will be happy to reevaluate all the pertinent data and the logic from which my conclusions were derived.

I reason as follows: A list of 12 truthful Word of faith propositions doesn’t make the movement true. Mormons have 12 apostles. And they have prophets and extra-biblical writings. And they also help their own and are able to “specify” many other parallels to the Apostolic Church. A counterfeit deceives precisely because it has so many aspects that are true.

What makes the Word of faith movement suspect are things like “Holy laughter” and the spirit that inspires many of them to make animal sounds in church. That’s simply not Biblical. What proves all of them to be deceived and unchristian is their belief in The Three Demons’ Messages.
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