A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:31 am Post subject: HERESY OF TITHING
Why does the SDA church have tithing as a doctrine? I have researched the various passages in the OT and NT dealing with tithing and cannot see how tithing should be applicable to Christians.
It is clear that tithing was a form of taxation in ancient Israel. Bear in mind that Israel was essentially a theocracy. (Well, it was supposed to be.)
We are regularly reminded that non-payment of tithes is theft from the Lord (on the projector screen) at collection time during the service at our congregation (Parow, South Africa).
Certain passages in the NT are often quoted as proof that Christians must pay tithes. Mathew 23:23 is a favorite. I find it ironic that the SDA hierarchy is willing to blatantly use this text out of context when eagerly pointing to other denominations' use of scripture out of context!
It is clear that Jesus' was merely using payment of tithe as an example when condemning hypocrisy.
Surely the SDA hierarchy should cease this heresy forthwith and remove any allusion to tithing from our doctrines and especially from the baptism vows.
Why does the SDA church have tithing as a doctrine?
The Three Angels’ Messages is the most important doctrine to Seventh-day Adventists. I recall reading Ellen White somewhere saying that the only reason the Seventh-day Adventist church was brought into existence was to preach these messages. (Click on the link for the essential meaning of the three angels’ messages). The first angel’s message answers decisively the question, “Are we to live for ourselves or for God?”
Before Jacob was named Israel, this Patriarch made a reasonable vow to the Lord. “If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear so that I return safely to my father’s house, then the LORD will be my God and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God’s house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth.” Genesis 28:20-22.
Jesus gave a great commission to his church to preach the gospel everywhere and to make disciples of all nations. That involves a major commitment for anyone who wishes to obey Christ. Not everyone is called to teach and preach the gospel but Scripture makes it very clear that we are to help those who do.
Quote:
If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more?
. . . Don’t you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. 1 Corinthians 9:11-14.
The same Scripture also says that men of God are not to push or forcibly solicit support for preaching the gospel because to insist on help would be a hindrance to the gospel of Christ. See 1 Corinthians 9:13.
As I’m sure you realize, there’s a delicate balance between the gospel of grace and the requirements of God’s law.
The gospel is paramount and should be put first. The hierarchy you mentioned would be better served if they weren’t so self-serving and focused their attention on The Three Angels’ Messages.
If you don't like the idea of paying tithing (10%) then perhaps you'd be happy with paying 100% of your income - because that is what the early New Testament Christians did _________________ "knit together in love"
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:52 pm Post subject: Should EVERY Christian family give 10%?
Actually, tithing means a tenth. But tithing in the OT was far different than the giving of today. The Israelites brought a tenth of their PRODUCE to a storage center for the priesthood. That included grain, sheep, oxen and general food. This was to feed and serve the priests. It definitely was a ceremonial law that was established under the Mosaic law. But even before the giving of the law, tithes were given to the high priest Melchizadek. So it dates back way before the Mosaic law covenant. The real idea of the tithe was never to FORCE the people to give ten per cent, but to share what they could give. God understands very well the difference in giving, from the very rich, to the poor.
In the New Testament the rich young ruler was not asked to give just a tenth of all he had, but everything period. While the old widow only had a solitary coin to give. God saw that even though it was a single coin, it was a substantial sum for her. And God was very pleased with her.That is the idea in giving. It is not meant to be a certain cut that you give to the church or missions, but that you DO give from a good heart.
God doesn't expect you to give up the money you need to use to feed your family or use on a necessary debt. Would God be pleased to see your family go hungry, at the expense of giving it all to your local church? Of course not. But God expects you to give what you KNOW YOU SHOULD. That is the idea. God loves a CHEERFUL giver.
Actually, tithing is a principle of faith. If we did give 10% of our income, then the Lord is committed to make sure we have our needs met, so says Malachi 3. _________________ "knit together in love"
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:20 am Post subject: I understand your conviction Red Angel, but....
I understand your conviction Red Angel, but not every family is in a position to give an exact amount of one tenth of their gross income every week.
There are many, many inner city families that have minimal wage jobs and barely have enough to buy groceries, let alone pay their rent. The tithing principle was established originally for the nation of Israel. The people at that time lived off the LAND and were more or less farmers. The tithe they brought in to the storage area was not a weekly tithe that was deducted from an employer, but produce from the harvest of their land. You cannot apply Malachi 3's tithing principle to the minimum wage worker today, because he is not a farmer, nor is he an Israelite. God knows what he or she is able to give. But God does not want a father or mother to give money to a church organization at the neglect of his own families needs.
Yes, I can understand your comments and have friends with similar predicaments. If I hadn't been a tithe payer from my first wage, then perhaps I too would also have trouble changing.
I am a mother of 4, one income family (my husband) and we are classified as "low income". I know there are worse off than me.
I draw strength from the widow's mite story of the NT where Jesus commend the woman who gave her last coin, which was 100%. He did not suggest that she need not have paid it. In fact, the story of Elisha/Elijah, who came to the woman with only a cup of flour and small amount of oil being the last of the food in her home, and the prophet insisted that she bake him the bread. He was not going to starve if the woman did not make the bread, but the command to give "everything" to the cause of God paid off the woman. Her faith first experience allowed God to bless her.
This is why I said it is mainly a principle of faith. Has this been os some strength to you? :) _________________ "knit together in love"
Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 1 Location: planet eart
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:47 am Post subject: tithing
Tithing was an old testament command, but is it a new testament requirement. Jesus told the pharisees; All this you should have done (The basics, including tithing) and not left the other undone; meaning the weightier matters of the law. I wonder if those so adament about tithing not being a requirement for Christians are more motivated by their greed, lack of faithful obedience, and fear then they are by any question of whether or not tithing is a biblical mandate. Testimonies abound ( I have some of my own re: tithing and God's financial provision for His children) of how God blesses those who seek first the kingdom of God with regard to their financial giving. _________________ don't tear down all the walls; let's build some -- out of stone. don't just build bridges, let's burn some, too! I'd like to be a repairer of the breach, how about you?
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:16 am Post subject: Re: tithing
morris conklin wrote:
Tithing was an old testament command, but is it a new testament requirement. Jesus told the pharisees; All this you should have done (The basics, including tithing) and not left the other undone; meaning the weightier matters of the law. I wonder if those so adament about tithing not being a requirement for Christians are more motivated by their greed, lack of faithful obedience, and fear then they are by any question of whether or not tithing is a biblical mandate. Testimonies abound ( I have some of my own re: tithing and God's financial provision for His children) of how God blesses those who seek first the kingdom of God with regard to their financial giving.
I wonder how many strict tithe payers are actually giving a tithe in response to God's love, as compared to those who are merely giving a tithe because they are attempting to purchase God's love
The nature of their response to those who don't give as they do, certainly betrays their reason for giving a tithe.
Hello all,
There are many examples of tithing throughout the old and new testament. The issue of whether or not tithing is required is answered by these examples. Tithing is a very personal response to God's command. Where we give our tithe is between us and God alone, as long as we give it.
I go along with the assumption that many are giving their tithe to purchase God's love instead of response to it.
God Bless you
Jeff W _________________ God Bless you
Jeff W
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 68 Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject:
Teaching that tithing is required by God of Christians is unbiblical. It is an Old Covenant law that does not apply to Christians. There is nothing in the New Testament that requires tithing by Christians. The Acts 15 Council did not make tithing a requirement. And the Malachi text is taken totally out of context. If people want to tithe as a personal habit, then that's fine. But to suggest that God requires it or that one is robbing God when not paying tithe is unbiblical. The NT teaches that we should give as we are able and from the heart. Anything else is manipulation.
Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: Seventh-day Adventists do not know the gospel
spozzie wrote:
The NT teaches that we should give as we are able and from the heart. Anything else is manipulation.
Spozzie, I don't think that your words accurately represent what we are required to give, according to the testimony of Jesus. Please recall the complete scope of the investigative judgment as illustrated in Christ's parable of the talents. We will be judged for our efforts to build up Christ's kingdom out of the many opportunities and abilities given us by God (Matthew 25:14-30) and for our love of those in the faith who are of low worldly rank (Matthew 25:31-46). "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone" (Luke 11:42). "So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple" (Luke 14:33). "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:1-4).
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