A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
Yet, I don’t believe that I am authorized by the Lord to say that Trinitarianism is a heresy or to say that it’s not a heresy. If the Lord wants me to state His judgment on the matter, He will give me more light. I already know that the Seventh-day Adventists who are crying the loudest about the Trinity doctrine being a heresy are a fulfillment of prophecy.
Eugene,
Besides not answering my question, you have contradicted yourself in your above reply. You say that you are not authorized by the Lord to say that Trinitarianism is a heresy or to say that its not a heresy because the Lord hasn't yet given you light on the subject. Yet you seem to think you're authorized to declare that those who have been exposing the Trinity as a heresy have fulfilled Ellen White's prophecy as agents of satan, inspired by him to cause division in God's church and to counteract God's truths. This tells me that you believe that the Trinity is one of God's truths that "agents of satan" would be attempting to counteract! This tells me that you have just spoken on the subject of whether the trinity is a heresy or not. The question is, who authorized you to make your pronouncements? For you claim that the Lord isn't the one who has authorized you to make a judgement on it in any wise. However, by making a derragatory judgment on those who have exposed the trinity as a heresy, you have in fact indeed made a judgement on the subject, albeit your claim to be not authorized by the Lord to do so.
Eugene, you're sending mixed signals. Either the Trinity is true or it is false. There is no middle ground. Truth is an absolute. So is falsehood. Its either one or the other. The degree of error, be it ever so slight, is error still.
You simply don’t understand the prophecy. Look at the way Ellen White answers the statement And here arises this superstition, and there arises that heresy. She doesn’t say that the statement is false. She doesn’t affirm that the statement is true. Why be critical of me for having the same response?
The reason I was criticizing your response is because I believe that its you that is misunderstanding EGW's words. She is speaking in the context of satan's agents working to oppose God's truth. She never counceled that God's people remain silent regarding heresy. Her attitude was to "meet it". She herself never kept silent when she saw heresy trying to worm its way into the church. So, for you to declare that those of us who expose the trinity doctrine as a heresy are a fulfillment of Ellen White's prophecy as agents of satan insinuating themselves in the midst of the church to confuse and cause division is indicative that you do have an opinion on the subject at hand, namely the trinity doctrine. Its a logical conclusion. If I'm wrong, then I humbly apologize. But the fact is, Eugene, that you really are not making yourself clear on this issue. Which side of this trinity issue are you on? You don't seem to have your feet firmly planted on either one side of the issue or the other. That's all I'm saying. If I'm wrong about how I'm interpreting your answer, I'm willing to stand corrected, but please make yourself clear. If you don't know whether the trinty is truth or heresy, then I suppose that you shouldn't discuss the matter until you feel that the Lord has spoken to you clearly on the matter. And if that's the case, then I'd like to know how you arrived at judging us as "Pseudo Seventh-day Adventists". For its our stand on the trinity as a heresy that has led you to label us thusly - and if you can't yet discern whether or not the trinity doctrine is truth or heresy, then I submit to you that its inappropriate for you to make such a blanket judgement on those of us that do have a definitive view on the subject.
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 12:25 pm Post subject: continuation from mars hill
Eugene wrote,
Quote:
Steve,
I did not say that enthusiasm alone is a criteria for these false prophets. I do not deny that they actually have a false message. By necessity, “false prophets” who promote “delusions” have a false message. Every specific of the prophecy has been fulfilled.
I agree that the false prophets have a false message. Ellen White also points out the result of these messages on the people of God,
Quote:
"Lo, here is Christ, Lo, he is there. This is the truth, I have the message from God, he has sent me with great light." Then there will be a removing of the landmarks, and an attempt to tear down the pillars of our faith. —Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, December 13, 1892.
It sounds like Trinitarianism would fit this characteristic more than anti-Trinitarianism, since all the founders/pioneers of Seventh-Day Adventism were anti-Trinitarian.
For those who think I misunderstand the Spirit of Prophecy:
Quote:
After the truth has been proclaimed as a witness to all nations, every conceivable power of evil will be set in operation, and minds will be confused by many voices crying, “Lo, here is Christ, Lo, he is there. This is the truth, I have the message from God, he has sent me with great light.” Then there will be a removing of the landmarks, and an attempt to tear down the pillars of our faith.
By necessity, “false prophets” who promote “delusions” have a false message.
I agree with this and I believe that the bearers of the false message are Satan's agents who go out and cry.
I believe that in your analysis of the agents of Satan you have looked at some of their symptoms and not at the underlying problem that makes them agents of Satan. When a person coughs is he clearing his throat in preparation to preach the word of God or does he have pneumonia? Is eveything that shakes up the church of God from Satan? Is there not a shaking time to come upon the church of God? What causes this Shaking?
Quote:
I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God's people. Early Writings of Ellen G. White, page 270
I do believe that I also see what you mean regarding the need for christian courtesy as we are supposed to be ambassadors of Christ and should therefore always demonstrate His love. But again, the lack of love is a symptom and not the underlying disease.
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