Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2002 7:40 pm Post subject: Trinity Vs. Holy Scripture
Hello-My name is Shoshannah, and I have spent about 5 years studying the Doctrine of the Holy Scripture. Doctrine, According to the book of Hebrews-is very important. The doctrine of Jesus Christ-is taught wonderfuly, of the Godhead. The bible has been so specific-and Accurate. But Man has brought unto us-the doctrine of trinity. 1 God-in three persons. Father-son-holy spirit. Where does it say this in Holy Scripture? Yes-The bible does declare that God became Flesh-and Yes, Jesus Christ (flesh) Was the Son of God. and Yes-God is declared to be the Father unto all of his children, and yes God is Holy-and he is a Spirit. But where does this role of "three persons' Play? It doesnt. The truth is-There is ONE GOD who is an INVISABLE SPIRIT, and has many attributes-such as 'Father, son, Holy Ghost, God, Wrath, and so On. Just like you and I-I am a sister, a daughter, and a cousin., Yet I have one name-And my name is Shoshannah. I am not three persons-But I have many characters/masks/attributes. Now some of you may think-Well what does it matter then? It matters-Because the bible says it does. Holy Scripture declares the GOD OF ANCIENT-and if we dont know him, in truth and in spirit-Then we are doomed. E-mail me at ritajc7@yahoo.com if you are interested in learning more, just thought I'd share the great news! Shoshannah~
The truth is-There is ONE GOD who is an INVISABLE SPIRIT, and has many attributes-such as 'Father, son, Holy Ghost, God, Wrath, and so On.
I'm not exactly sure what you are saying. Are you saying that there is only one being that is being manifested in three forms, agencies or persons? Please clarify.
Joined: 21 Oct 2002 Posts: 52 Location: Abbotsford, B.C. Canada
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 12:17 am Post subject:
If I may, let me just say that we may be guilty of attempting to explain the unexplainable while we may not even begin to understand the matter of salvation although it is just as simple as abc. "Not one in one hundred understands the Bible truth on this subject that is so necessary to our present and eternal welfare." 1 S.M.360. "The matter of salvation is just as simple as abc but we don't understand it." F.W.64. And we claim to be able to unravel the mystery of the trinity!
As for me, the Bible tells me that there is one God in three Persons. I accept that by faith and I will have eternity, if faithful, to study this stupendous truth without ever fully understanding it! Inspiration tells us that "there are three persons of the heavenly trio." Evangelism, p.615. I believe that and thank God for stating it clearly though it is one of the greatest mysteries of the Bible. _________________ Believing unto righteousness Rom.10:10.
I also believe in the "heavenly trio". But not the trinity! "Heavenly trio" is a far far far cry from "heavenly trinity". There's a reason why Ellen White never used that word in describing God - and that's because God is not a trinity. The word "trinity" is from the Latin word "trinitas" which means "the state of being threefold". On the other hand the word "trio" means a "group or set of three". See the difference? In a trinity, its one entity which has a threefold state. Hence, one God composed of three beings or threefold beings. The "heavenly trio" of Ellen White are simply Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - these three do not make up the one God. Else there would no longer be a "trio" but a "trinity". For the one God is the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6) (John 17:3) The Son is the Son "OF" God. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit "OF" God. They are both possessions of God and both proceed from God.
Joined: 21 Oct 2002 Posts: 52 Location: Abbotsford, B.C. Canada
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:11 pm Post subject:
"For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are One." 1 John 4:7.
And please don't tell me, like some friends once told me, that this passage of Scripture was tampered with to fit what the Catholic Church teaches on the Trinity. We all know that the king James is, by far, the closest to the Hebrew and we should trust its accuracy above all modern translations.
This verse is the truth! We are to accept it and believe it and act upon it! But in order to accept this simple declaration we must become as a little children before our Heavenly Father who is infinite in wisdom and knowledge! _________________ Believing unto righteousness Rom.10:10.
This verse is the truth! We are to accept it and believe it and act upon it! But in order to accept this simple declaration we must become as a little children before our Heavenly Father who is infinite in wisdom and knowledge!
I agree 1John 5:7 is the truth. It says that these three are one. It also points out what they are one in. They are one in purpose. verse 6 points out that the Spirit testifies of Christ. Verse 10 points out that The Father also testifies of Christ. The message is clear,
1) Jesus is the Christ,
2) Jesus is the Son of God,
3) Anyone that says different is not of God,
4) Through the Son we have eternal life.
Ellen White points out,
Quote:
Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore. The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. The Faith I Live By 46
Not the same person but one in purpose,
Quote:
Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father--one in nature, in character, in purpose--the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. PP 34
"For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are One." 1 John 4:7.
And please don't tell me, like some friends once told me, that this passage of Scripture was tampered with to fit what the Catholic Church teaches on the Trinity. We all know that the king James is, by far, the closest to the Hebrew and we should trust its accuracy above all modern translations.
Sorry, but the truth must be told. That verse is an interpolation that was only to be found in ONE manuscript. Those that decided on the trinity doctrine at the Council of Nicea in the fourth century and Constantinoble would have loved it if that verse were to be found in the scriptures! But, alas, it wasn't known at that time! For that interpolation didn't occur until much later on, A.D. 1215. You see, brother, the doctrine of the trinity, back then in those councils, was not arrived upon by serious bible study. No! It was a heathen hypocrite who claimed to be a christian convert named Constantine who decreed, in concert with apostate bishops and church dignitaries that God was a trinity! And even if all that wasn't so, the verse still doesn't prove that God is a trinity. For its not saying that the Father the Word and the Holy Ghost compose the one God!!! Verse 8 tells us that on earth these three agree in one: the Spirit and the water and the blood. That doesn't define God as a trinity either! And BTW, the verse is 1 John 5:7. So, please, forget about 1 John 5:7. No reputable scholar, including SDA trinitarians ever uses that verse to prove the trinity - they all understand the dubious origin of that verse.
So, Adventbeliever - can you produce any REAL scriptures testifiying to the veracity of the "triune God"?
Joined: 21 Oct 2002 Posts: 52 Location: Abbotsford, B.C. Canada
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 7:05 pm Post subject:
Do you see what I mean? It does not matter what passage of Scripture is brought up, these people claim to know and possess all knowledge even as above the word of God no matter how plain it is stated that the three are one. Mickey, If you can't accept this passage of Scripture as the truth, then you cannot accept any passage of the Bible as the word of God, period.
I will not allow any man to tell me what passage of Scripture is inspired and which one is not! What is it coming to?
P.S. Mickey, I have heard it all before. This feeble reasoning tells me that God cannot keep and protect His word, that it is left to the buffeting of the enemy. That the enemy can alter the word at will. How could we be sure that any other verse of the Bible tells the truth or not? It is nothing short of an insult to the omnipotence and omniscience of God! _________________ Believing unto righteousness Rom.10:10.
Again 1John 5:7 describes the oneness of purpose, it does not say they are the same being and that purpose is to proclaim the salvation that is in Christ Jesus as the Son of God.
As previously stated, 1 John 5:7 does NOT define God as a trinity. It does NOT say that there is ONE God IN THREE persons. That is YOUR spin on the verse. And, furthermore, again I will state that 1 John 5:7 is an interpolation NOT found in all of the manuscripts. God does keep His word pure and protected - that's why He's allowed the truth of that interpolation to be made universally known. And that's why when the trinity doctrine was formulated in the fourth century, its proponents, who were hard-pressed to find biblical backing for it, didn't cite 1 John 5:7 - because it wasn't to be found in the bible at that time.
Now, you said that you know of "many scriptures" which defines God as a trinity. You have yet to provide them. Why?
While the text says "these three are one" it does not say they are one God. It goes on to say, "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." 1 John 5:11
This says that the God here being talked about is the Father. The rest of the Bible also supports this.
"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God even the Father....And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." 1 Cor. 15:24,28
"Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ," Galatians 1:3 and Ephesians 1:2
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things and we by him." 1 Cor. 8:6
These texts all say that God is the Father, not a trinity
Joined: 21 Oct 2002 Posts: 52 Location: Abbotsford, B.C. Canada
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:25 pm Post subject:
The truth is that there are three distinct Persons of the Godhead. They are not one in Person but they are one in purpose! _________________ Believing unto righteousness Rom.10:10.
The truth is that there are three distinct Persons of the Godhead. They are not one in Person but they are one in purpose!
This then is not a trinity because a trinity would be one being manifested in three persons or three phases. And if they are one in purpose and not in person they are a trio not a trinity. The Bible is clear that God is a single entity, a single being.
Quote:
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." John 17:3
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