A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
But the trinitarians say "no, the Father is NOT the ONLY TRUE GOD, there are TWO OTHER GODS that ALSO are the source of all life and being. But trinitarians have a big problem. They have no bible text(s) to prove their idol theory
First of all we do NOT say that the Father is NOT the ONLY TRUE GOD.
We say that the ONLY TRUE GOD encompases the Father who is the Only True God, and Christ who is the only true God, and the Spirit, who is the Only True God. For they are ONE GOD -- not three Gods.
Are you saying that to acknowledge Christ as the TRUE GOD is having an IDOL. Is calling CHRIST, GOD, worshipping an idol?
Was Thomas worshipping an idol when he exclaimed:
"MY LORD AND MY GOD". John 20:28
Was God the Father setting up an idol in Hebrews 1:8,
when He said Christ is God?
Now let's explore this further.
If you ask a child, "If Jesus is a god, but is not the True God, what kind of God is Jesus? Without going to any other passage than John 17:3, the child would always say, "Jesus is a false god".
If John 17:3 merely read, the "only God" (as opposed to "only true God"), it would be bad enough for the anti-trinitarian. But the way John 17:3 is worded represents a "worst case scenario" for it reads, "ONLY TRUE GOD", for they admit Jesus is still called God in scripture, while telling us we are "worshipping idos" for calling Christ God? Doesn't make much sense.
This forces the anti-trinitarians to admit that John 17:3 somehow has to allow Jesus to be "TRUE god" while somehow still denying he is the "true GOD".
But placing the exclusive meaning on the phrase that the Father is the "only true God" can only force the understanding that Jesus is NEITHER "true" or "God" in any sense. In the end the way they want to read the verse is that Jesus is neither A (TRUE GOD) or B (FALSE GOD) but C (a TRUE DEMI-GOD).
A.)The Father is the ONE GOD.
B.)The Father is the SOURCE of ALL ("OF WHOM ARE ALL THINGS")
Does it say that both the Father and the Son are the ONE GOD? NO! It says that the Father ALONE is the ONE GOD! If anyone fails to read that in the above text, then I suggest they re-admit themselves into elementary school! Now, along with that, does the text say that Christ is also the Source of ALL? No! It simply says that Christ is the Agent through which the Father's creation was effected!
It does?
This is the text:
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Where does it say Christ is just an AGENT THROUGH WHICH THE FATHER WORKED? You are adding to scripture.
They created together, "LET US MAKE" Gen. 1:26
Christ was the ONE did the ACTIVE Creating!
John 1.1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1.2
The same was in the beginning with God.
1.3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Col. 1:18
All things were created by him, and for him:
1.17
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
1.18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Another attempt to prove that Christ is not the true God by Mickey stated:
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The fact is that Jesus is NOT Jehovah, the self-existing one. The bible calls Him the "Son of God". Yes, He's divine. Yes, He can speak in the Father's name (Jehovah) - But He's NOT the Almighty God. He's the Son of the Almighty God.
Yes, the Father is THE ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD,
But CHRIST IS also the ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD,
for they are ONE GOD, two persons, but ONE GOD.
Now, the fact is-- GOD WHO SPOKE in the Old Testament was Christ! And He is JEHOVAH GOD!
Consider this question as you read the next verses:
WHO is the "FIRST AND THE LAST?"
Is. 44.6
Thus saith the LORD (JEHOVAH) the King of Israel, AND his Redeemer the LORD (JEHOVAH) of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
(Here we saw the two in ONE and both are called JEHOVAH!)
Is. 48.12-13
Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am He; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens:
(Col. 2:16 says by Christ's hand ALL things were created)
Is. 48.16-17
Come ye near to me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there I AM: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, has sent me.Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God.
(Here we have all three in ONE) This is a very interesting verse. It sets forth the eternity of Christ, and reveals that the God and His Spirit sent HIM!
The above WORDS WERE SPOKEN BY CHRIST--
and HE is sent by the LORD GOD, and HIS SPIRIT-- and yet HE TESTIFIES THAT HE IS THE ONE AND ONLY AND EVERLASTING GOD.
When John sees Christ He again claims the same titles:
In Rev. 1.17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
And it was to the church of Smyrna in Rev. 2.8 that Christ again announced the name:
"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;"
And the Revelation given to us of Jesus ends with the WORDS:
Rev. 22.12-13 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Now we have plainly established that CHRIST IS THE FIRST AND THE LAST--
And NOW COMES A TEXT THAT SAYS (if we were to follow the same reasoning the anti-trinitarians use for John 17:3) that CHRIST IS THE ONLY GOD!
Is. 44.6 Thus saith the LORD (JEHOVAH) the King of Israel, and his Redeemer the LORD (JEHOVAH) of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
1 Timothy 6:14-16 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
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Paul is saying here that it is Jesus, God's Son who will show WHO is the blessed and ONLY Potentate (Supreme Ruler) WHO is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and WHO ONLY has immortality and that dwells in the unapproachable light whom no man can approach unto and whom NO MAN HAS EVER SEEN NOR CAN SEE! This is talking about God the FATHER. No man has seen the Father, but ONLY the Son has seen Him. And many have seen the Son. And its the Son's position to show forth the Father.
Yes, Jesus will show WHO is the ONLY SUPREME RULER--
but contrary to this EITHER-OR debate imposed by the anti-trinitarians exclusive use of "ONLY" on John 17:3 in which they try to exclude Christ from being TRUE GOD--
--it will show that the ONE TRUE GOD, includes the FATHER and the SON, as the only sovereign ruler.
There's an interesting verse in John 26:63 where the priests ask Jesus
tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
26.64
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Why didn't Jesus say, YES, I am the Son of God-- why did He change it to SON OF MAN?
The whole issue here is that HE, though born a son at His incarnation, the Son of both man and God, IS NONE THE LESS GOD! And HE WILL COME SITTING BESIDE THE FATHER-- for both are the ONE GOD, the ONE SOVEREIGN sitting on the ONE THRONE of heaven.
For Christ DWELLS in that light which no man can approach and live-- HE IS GOD. He sits with GOD upon the THRONE-- it is the THRONE of God and the Lamb-- IT IS ONE THRONE!
CHRIST IS the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS--
He didn't borrow that title from anyone.
Rev. 17.14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Rev. 19.16
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
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As for Revelation 19, and the NAME written on His vesture and on his thigh being KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS - this is interesting. It doesn't say that this is the name of Jesus. For if one but reads a few verses behind, we see the following:
If Revelation 19:13 isn't clear enough Rev. 17 certainly leaves no question:
Rev. 17.14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
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The symbolism in Revelation 19 is pointing to the armies of God led out and captained by Christ as the agent that is prosecuting GOD's warfare against evil.
Again you must deny that Christ is God, but reduce HIM only to an agent of God--- how sad.
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Christ is riding out IN THE NAME OF GOD, HIS FATHER, carrying the BANNER OF HIS FATHER'S NAME who is THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS! Christ, the Son whose "name is called The Word of God" prosecutes this final war in the NAME OF GOD HIS FATHER who is the ONLY POTENTATE (The Supreme Ruler), the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Oh but Rev. 17:14 says plainly that THE LAMB IS King of Kings and Lord of Lords, He's not just an agent. NO! NO! NO! HE IS GOD!
Yes, HE IS THE WORD OF GOD,--
He is the GOD THAT SPOKE all through the OT saying "I AM JEHOVAH GOD".
John 1:1 says the WORD IS GOD.
Christ IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD
The FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD.
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS TRUE GOD.
Indeed Christ is God in INFINITY--
Infinity MEANS without beginning and without end.
Sorry, wrong again. It means that His existence cannot be measured by time. It doesn't preclude Him having an origin. The angelic hosts existence is infinite - its cannot be measured by time. The finally saved will have an infinite existence - for their existence will not be able to be measured by time - its inexhaustable - which is the MEANING of INFINITY.
Again, nice try - but your argument doesn't stand.
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There is ONE GOD, three persons.
Provide for us the scripture, chapter and verse please that defines the ONE GOD as three persons. You keep telling us this but you continue to skirt the issue and NOT provide the scriptural proof. I want the truth according to the bible not according to dedication, OK?
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The Father is not the Son,
The Son is not the Father,
Right!
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The Spirit is not the Father
Wrong! The Spirit of God personifies God. The Spirit of Christ personifies Christ. The Father and the Son share the one Spirit. (Romans 8:9)
Can you give us anything concrete from the bible proving beyond the peradventure of a doubt that God is a trinity? We're STILL waiting! :)
I gave you much from the Bible-- I don't see anything from the Bible in your post above-- just your voice denying what I wrote and adding your own WORDS and interpretion to scripture.
Where do angel's have "INFINITY"? They were created. A third of them, the ones that sided with Satan, will die.
They do not HAVE INFINITY--
People will be given "eternal life" but they do not have INFINITY.
Infinity means from everlasting to everlasting, without beginning or end.
Only God has INFINITY
And Christ is God in INFINITY.
The Bible plainly says there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD--
There are many verses that show that CHRIST IS GOD.
There are many verses that show that the FATHER IS GOD.
BUT THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD--- in your posts you keep denying over and over again that Christ is God--to you HE is but an agent. An instrument through Whom God the Father works.
NO--he is not just and agent, CHRIST IS GOD, I've provided plenty of scripture to show that, and only one whose eyes are blinded deny that Christ is God.
And yes, the Holy Spirit belongs to the Father and to the Son.
Just as Christ belongs to the Father, and the Father belongs to Christ.
They belong together-- for they are ONE GOD--three persons.
The Holy Spirit is a Person, just as the Father is a Person.
Webpage, Holy Spirit
First of all we do NOT say that the Father is NOT the ONLY TRUE GOD. We say that the ONLY TRUE GOD encompases the Father who is the Only True God, and Christ who is the only true God, and the Spirit, who is the Only True God. For they are ONE GOD -- not three Gods.
Your definition of God is totally insane, not to mention unscriptural! The Bible says that God the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD (1 Corinthians 8:6, John 17:3). But, you say that the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD and the SON is the ONLY TRUE GOD and the Spirit is the ONLY TRUE GOD. You admit that all three of them are THE ONLY TRUE GOD IN AND OF THEMSELVES, yet you deny that there are THREE GODS! All three of them, according to you, are each THE ONLY TRUE GOD. Sorry dedication, but no matter the spin you keep trying to place on it, THIS ADDS UP TO THREE GODS!!! You are practicing TRITHIEISM! And you are propagating TRITHIEISM! Those are the cold, hard facts. How could each one of them, Father, Son, and Spirit EACH be THE ONLY TRUE GOD??? A couple may have THREE SONS. Can EACH Son be the ONLY Son??? I guess so, if one swallows your gospel.
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Are you saying that to acknowledge Christ as the TRUE GOD is having an IDOL. Is calling CHRIST, GOD, worshipping an idol?
What I'm saying is to acknowledge that God is defined as three co-equal, co-eternal persons is an idol god, a false god, a god not known in the bible, a god not acknowledged by Christ, a god not acknowledged by any of the apostles. Christ is NOT THE true God. He is the SON of the True God.
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Was Thomas worshipping an idol when he exclaimed:
"MY LORD AND MY GOD". John 20:28
No. But nowhere did Thomas honour Christ as the ONLY TRUE GOD.
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If you ask a child, "If Jesus is a god, but is not the True God, what kind of God is Jesus? Without going to any other passage than John 17:3, the child would always say, "Jesus is a false god".
The bible tells us to "train up a child in the way he should go". He/she should not be trained to believe that Jesus is a god or that Jesus is the ONLY TRUE GOD. He/she should be trained to accept the biblical fact that Jesus is the Divine Son of God, equal to God His Father in power, nature, and character inheriting all of His divine attributes from God, His Father. If the child is taught the right thing from the get-go, there won't be any need for silly questions.
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If John 17:3 merely read, the "only God" (as opposed to "only true God"), it would be bad enough for the anti-trinitarian. But the way John 17:3 is worded represents a "worst case scenario" for it reads, "ONLY TRUE GOD", for they admit Jesus is still called God in scripture, while telling us we are "worshipping idos" for calling Christ God? Doesn't make much sense.
Non-trinitarians have no problem with John 17:3 or any other bible verse for that matter. For the non-trinitarian is confident in what the word speaks and no trinitarian has ever been able to win a debate proving from the bible that the one God is defined as three persons. Have you not yet realized that every single one of your objections to the Father as the ONLY TRUE GOD and the literal Sonship of Christ have been met without any refutation from you? Oh, you try, sure. But all you do is go around in circles (you know, the feet on both the accelerator and the brakes) but continue to fail to bring forth the scriptural proof that God is triune. Hopefully, one day, you'll see the truth in its beauty. There is NO way that the trinitarian could define God as more than one person by reading John 17:3, and dedication, you haven't done it either.
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This forces the anti-trinitarians to admit that John 17:3 somehow has to allow Jesus to be "TRUE god" while somehow still denying he is the "true GOD".
How so? What non-trinitarian denies that John 17:3 exclusively cites the Father as THE ONLY TRUE GOD???
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But placing the exclusive meaning on the phrase that the Father is the "only true God" can only force the understanding that Jesus is NEITHER "true" or "God" in any sense. In the end the way they want to read the verse is that Jesus is neither A (TRUE GOD) or B (FALSE GOD) but C (a TRUE DEMI-GOD).
Wrong! The meaning that's conveyed in the verse is simply that the Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. Its sad that trinitarians refuse to believe in the words of Jesus. How they can claim to worship Him but yet not believe His words is surely another trinitarian mystery! Not only do they deny the one and only true God, but they deny their Father/Son relationship and lastly they deny the very words of their Saviour. How sad!
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A.)The Father is the ONE GOD.
B.)The Father is the SOURCE of ALL ("OF WHOM ARE ALL THINGS")
Does it say that both the Father and the Son are the ONE GOD? NO! It says that the Father ALONE is the ONE GOD! If anyone fails to read that in the above text, then I suggest they re-admit themselves into elementary school! Now, along with that, does the text say that Christ is also the Source of ALL? No! It simply says that Christ is the Agent through which the Father's creation was effected!
It does?
This is the text:
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Where does it say Christ is just an AGENT THROUGH WHICH THE FATHER WORKED? You are adding to scripture.
Dedication, this much I know that you know: you know full well the bible verse that says that God created the world BY Jesus Christ His Son. The Son effected the creation. The Father is the ultimate creator.
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all mensee what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.
Please don't tell me you're not familar with the above verse. Who's the Creator? God. Who fulfilled God's will in the creation? His Son! That's scripture, not adding to it.
Now, answer this question. Who is the Source of All things, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, or all of them together? And please qualify your answer with scripture backing. Thank you.
Wrong! There cannot be ALSO ANOTHER TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD. ONLY ONE God can have ALL might. And the bible only cites the Father as the ONLY TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD. But, fine, you say that Christ is ALSO the ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD - OK - now PROVE IT! With Scripture! Please!
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for they are ONE GOD, two persons, but ONE GOD.
So, its THEY that are ONE GOD? But you said that Christ is ALSO THE ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD. That makes for more than one. Right now you're up to TWO ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY GODS!!! You haven't yet introduced the Spirit as the THIRD ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD, but that's another story.
Dedication, you're driving with one foot on the brakes and one on the accelerator - you no can do that and expect to get to your destination of truth.
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Now, the fact is-- GOD WHO SPOKE in the Old Testament was Christ! And He is JEHOVAH GOD!
Your statement above is HALF true. Christ spoke in the Old Testament. He spoke for God and spoke in God's name. I already provided you the scripture from exodus in another post. Also provided for you multiple times is that Christ, being God's Son in the express image of the Father's person and brightness of the Father's glory INHERITED God's "excellent" name. These scriptural truths just seem to go in one ear and out the other and clear over your head. Christ INHERITED the name of Jehovah from God, His Father. Ellen White concurs with this quote that also has been provided in the past "Jehovah is the name GIVEN TO CHRIST". It can't get any plainer. I'm sure that if I didn't love God's truth so much, my fingers would be quite weary in debunking this trinity heresy.
The whole issue here is that HE, though born a son at His incarnation, the Son of both man and God, IS NONE THE LESS GOD! And HE WILL COME SITTING BESIDE THE FATHER-- for both are the ONE GOD, the ONE SOVEREIGN sitting on the ONE THRONE of heaven.
For Christ DWELLS in that light which no man can approach and live-- HE IS GOD. He sits with GOD upon the THRONE-- it is the THRONE of God and the Lamb-- IT IS ONE THRONE!
Yes, ONE THRONE, but that ONE THRONE belongs to the Father, the ONE GOD!
Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Whose throne is it, dedication? Its the FATHER's Throne that HE shares and permits His Son to have a part in. Again, your argument fails.
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CHRIST IS the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS--
He didn't borrow that title from anyone.
So you say. But I'm not interested in what you say. I'm interested in what the word of God says and Hebrews 1:4 emphatically states that Christ inherited God's excellent name. Christ, the Son is also authorized by God to use God's name. Exodus 23:21.
Dedication, I'd love to believe you and join in with you in your beliefs, but I must defer to a higher authority which is the word of God. Until you can prove by scripture your trinitarianism, your presentations are nothing more than misapplied scripture mixed with human philosophy. Not good enough for me and many others seeking truth.
Where do angel's have "INFINITY"? They were created. A third of them, the ones that sided with Satan, will die.
I'm not referring to the fallen angels. I'm referring to the unfallen angels. They will live forever. Their lives will not be measured by time. That's infinity.
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The Bible plainly says there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD
That's correct.
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There are many verses that show that CHRIST IS GOD.
But not one verse that says that Christ is the ONLY TRUE GOD. There are many verses that show that Christ is divine. No doubt about it. But He's definetly NOT the one true God and Jesus said so Himself in John 17:3. To deny this is either blindness or blatant rebellion. I don't know which, but that's for God to sort out and judge.
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There are many verses that show that the FATHER IS GOD.
Yes, and the ONE and ONLY God!
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And yes, the Holy Spirit belongs to the Father and to the Son.
Just as Christ belongs to the Father, and the Father belongs to Christ.
They belong together-- for they are ONE GOD--three persons
.
You keep messing up with that third statement. Show me the scriptures please that substantiate your third statement above. Thank you.
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The Holy Spirit is a Person, just as the Father is a Person.
Yes, and that's because the Holy Spirit IS the PERSON of the FATHER, His PERSONAL PRESENCE in an invisible and omnipresent form. The Holy Spirit is NOT a third separate almighty one true God. Again, where's the scripture backing, dedication?
Actually, why not seek out and see if you can find ONE line of scripture that defines God as do Fundamental Belief #2 "There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal persons." That's all you need to do, dedication is find us that scripture. Find us that scripture that nullifies 1 Corinthians 8:6 and John 17:3 and a host of others. Since you can't fit the trinitarian view in any of those scriptures, you must needs find that all-encompassing bible verse that defines God as three separate deities that are one in purpose and character and nature. Find it and I'll accept it. Fair enough? God bless!
No, the angel's do not have "infinity" their lives are depended upon God, they are not self-existing.
Only God is self-existing and has "infinity". And Christ is God, and is self-existing and has "infinity".
YI.1900-06-21.002
Not one of the angels could have become surety for the human race: their life is God's; they could not surrender it. The angels all wear the yoke of obedience. They are the appointed messengers of Him who is the commander of all heaven. But Christ is equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. He could pay the ransom for man's freedom. He is the eternal, self-existing Son, on whom no yoke had come;
Obviously you have not read anything I wrote --
for indeed I have pointed several places where Christ is called the only God.
Besides the Bible says there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD---
There are many verses that show that CHRIST IS GOD.
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But (Mickey says) there is not one verse that says that Christ is the ONLY TRUE GOD. There are many verses that show that Christ is divine. No doubt about it. But He's definetly NOT the one true God and Jesus said so Himself in John 17:3. To deny this is either blindness or blatant rebellion. I don't know which, but that's for God to sort out and judge.
The verse DOES NOT SAY Christ is NOT the one true God-- you changing the verse and reading into something into the verse that is based on your own narrow interpretation. That is faulty reasoning based simply on insisting that "ONE GOD" could not possibly mean the unity of three persons.
I've already given many examples that your narrow interpretation of that verse DOES NOT HOLD UP with the rest of the Bible.
Using inconsistant interpetation is not truth:
1 Cor. 8:6 "For us there is one God, the Father
of whom are all things and we for Him and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we live."
According to the anti-trinitarian logic, they take the first part and say the ONE GOD is the Father and it excludes Jesus from being called the one true God.
Yet to follow that same logic we would have to take the words ONE LORD
to exclude the Father from being called our Lord.
Now what does that do the following texts:
Matt. 12.29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
12.30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Now remember the anti-trinitarians say 1 Cor. 8:6 "proves" the Father is the One God, and the phrase excludes Christ. BUT TO BE CONSISTANT they must then take the second half of the phrase to then say the word "ONE LORD" must be exclusively reserved for Christ. If there is ONLY ONE LORD, and 1Cor.6:8 says that is JESUS,
then who is the ONE LORD in Matt. 12:29?
If the anti-trinitarians say it is the Father, they are not being consistant.
Of course-- the truth is that BOTH CHRIST AND THE FATHER are the ONE TRUE LORD AND GOD.
That's why Thomas could say to Christ "MY LORD AND MY GOD"
BUT THERE ARE MANY MORE SCRIPTURES SHOWING THAT CHRIST IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD AS THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD.
Isaiah 43.11
I, even I, am the LORD (JEHOVAH); and beside me there is no Saviour.
Isaiah 45:21-22
There is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Hosea 13.4
Yet I am the LORD (JEHOVAH) thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no Saviour beside me.
Now here we saw three verses that plainly say
1. Jehovah is our Savior
2. There is no other Savior
--NO Savior beside Jehovah.
3. There is no other God-- none else
4. We are to know no other god but Jehovah
Yet Peter in his sermon in Acts 4.12 says of JESUS:
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
John 4:42
Know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
Phil 3:20
We look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Again-- Christ is God as the Father is God-- the only true God is ONE GOD in three persons.
Yes, ONE THRONE, but that ONE THRONE belongs to the Father, the ONE GOD!
Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Whose throne is it, dedication?
Christ says it's his Father's throne.
The Father says it's Christ's throne.
Hebrews 1.8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
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