A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
The sinners in Zion are terrified;
trembling grips the godless:
"Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire?
Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?"
He who walks righteously
and speaks what is right,
who rejects gain from extortion
and keeps his hand from accepting bribes,
who stops his ears against plots of murder
and shuts his eyes against contemplating evil.
Isaiah 33:14-15. NIV.
Note what this Scripture teaches:
The sinners in Zion are terrified. These godless folk say, Who can dwell in the fire that burns forever? Isaiah answers, only the righteous. It is obvious from this passage that a consuming fire that burns forever represents an ultimate and awesome fire that will utterly consume and be inescapable.
John the Baptist called it "unquenchable fire" (Matthew 3:12). The most indisputable point about unquenchable fire is that nothing but ashes remain (Malachi 4:3).
Now compare this to what Jesus taught about the final judgment:
Quote:
Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire"... Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. Matthew 25:41,46.
Notice first that the eternal fire is of infinite duration; it continues as long as eternal life. Here, eternal fire means the same as in Isaiah 33:14-15. Jesus is utilizing strong language that symbolizes absolute and inescapable destruction. In Christ's teachings, there is no hope for the eventual restoration of the wicked. Eternal punishment is a punishment that will last forever. Notice also that nothing is said in these verses about eternal conscious torment. The consequence of eternal fire is a permanent, unceasing death. The wicked being destroyed forever is an eternal punishment.
The Spirit of prophecy supports this interpretation. After quoting the teachings of modern-day scholars on eternal conscious torment, Ellen G. White identifies their error to be, not a misunderstanding of Greek, but a failure to understand strong expressions of Scripture.
Quote:
Said a learned doctor of divinity: "The sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the saints forever. When they see others who are of the same nature and born under the same circumstances, plunged in such misery, and they so distinguished, it will make them sensible of how happy they are." Another used these words: "While the decree of reprobation is eternally executing on the vessels of wrath, the smoke of their torment will be eternally ascending in view of the vessels of mercy, who, instead of taking the part of these miserable objects, will say, Amen, Alleluia! praise ye the Lord!"
Those who present the views expressed in the quotations given above may be learned and even honest men, but they are deluded by the sophistry of Satan. He leads them to misconstrue strong expressions of Scripture, giving to the language the coloring of bitterness and malignity which pertains to himself, but not to our Creator. —The Great Controversy, p. 535.
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Hell, Who can dwell in the fire that burns forever?
Eugene Shubert wrote:
Traditional Christianity teaches that, for the sins of a brief earthly life, the wicked dead are tormented with fire and brimstone in an eternally burning hell and will continue to suffer this torture for all eternity [1][2].
Greetings,
Thought you find the following article having some interesting thoughts on the topic at hand. The following excerpt is about half the article.
But does the Bible also say that the fire into which the wicked are to be cast shall not be quenched? It certainly does; let us read: “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off; it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” Mark 9:43, 44; also verses 45-48. We would not in the least evade the full force of this text; we believe in it, and yet we still hold that the wicked are to become ashes, and cease to be. Let us see if we cannot also find an instance of unquenchable fire that has already existed and ceased to be. In the seventeenth chapter of Jeremiah, the Lord, by his prophets, warned his people against the sin of Sabbath-breaking. He told them that if they would keep the Sabbath according to his commandment, their city, Jerusalem, should stand for ever. “But,” said he, “if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the Sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.” Jer. 17:27. But the Jews did not heed this warning; they continued to violate the Sabbath, and the Lord brought upon them that which he had threatened. Read what is said of it:—
“And the Lord God of their fathers sent to them by his messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because he had compassion on his people, and on his dwelling-place; but they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy. Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary; . . . . and they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly vessels thereof. . . . To fulfil the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah.” 2 Chron. 36:15-21.
Here we see that as the result of that fire that was not to be quenched, the palaces were burned, and the vessels were destroyed. Is the fire burning yet? Certainly not. Are the palaces and walls still in existence? No; the fire made an end of them. But suppose the fire that was kindled in the gates of Jerusalem had been quenched; what would have been the result? Why, the walls and palaces would not have been devoured, as Jeremiah had said they should.
Take a common occurrence. A fire breaks out in a city. The wind fans the flames so that every effort to extinguish them is in vain. The next day the papers say that certain blocks of buildings were burned to ashes. Why was it? Because the fire could not be quenched. If it could have been, the buildings would have been preserved. But does the fire still continue to burn? No; it went out as soon as the buildings were consumed. There was nothing then for it to feed upon, and it died.
Now what did we read in Malachi that the fate of the wicked shall be? “They shall be ashes under the soles of your feet.” But this result would not be accomplished if the fire into which they are to be cast should be quenched. The fact that the fire shall not be quenched is the fullest proof necessary that they will be utterly consumed. Mark the strong language used by John the Baptist: “Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” Matt. 3:12. Here, as in many other places, the wicked are likened to chaff; now if they are to exist in the flames of punishment to all eternity, this would be an inappropriate figure, for chaff does not long withstand the fire. And the fact that they who are represented by the chaff will not be proof against the destructive action of the fire, is indicated by the statement that he will “burn up” the chaff.
Right here we may notice a passage in Isaiah. “The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?” Isa. 33:14. This is a very pertinent question. Shall we conclude from that that the prophet teaches that the wicked will dwell in the fire to all eternity? That would be a hasty, shortsighted conclusion. The very next verse answers the question: “He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil.” Such, and such alone, can dwell with the devouring fire, and with everlasting burnings. While the “devouring fire” seizes upon the chaff, and burns it up, the righteous ones, gathered into the garner of the Lord, shall dwell in safety. Well may the sinners in Zion be afraid, for the day is coming that “shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.” <E. J. Waggoner, “Everlasting Fire,” The Signs of the Times 10, 42 (November 6, 1884), p. 664. He has other interesting articles relating to the topic if interested. It's always good to have many ways of stating the subject for reaching the same end.
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