Putting Eugene Shubert to the test

errorblaster · pseudo 7th-day Adventist Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 16

You state that I am a pseudo SDA, I want to know why you have not replied to any of my articles such as Luke 21:24 the Sign of the End of Time or the post regarding Trinitarian issues, I answered your question by giving you the statement from the Spirit of Prophecy regarding what Ellen White stated regarding the Holy Spirit being Jesus himself.

So far you haven't replied and since I was labeled a Pseudo SDA I want to know where I am wrong so that I can learn what is right. You didn't answer my question regarding your belief about the millennium, is it in heaven or on the earth? I asked you to correct me if I was wrong on this matter. I thought I read on one of your posts that you may have stated that the millennium was on the earth. Again I say I am not sure, I want to know.

It is very easy putting labels on people without providing the reasons why it was done. When an injustice was comitted by the SDAs in Texas regarding your person you didn't like what occurred and you felt you were maligned. So since I want to be saved I also want answers as to why I am wrong.

Eugene Shubert

errorblaster · pseudo 7th-day Adventist Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 16

No one ever answered anything that I had to say and that is okay. The only thing that I am saying is that you labeled me a pseudo SDA without explaining why it was done.

For some strange reason I am not feeling very good vibes coming from you. The only thing that I want to do is exchange Ideas. I never stated that I had the final say on the matter of the trio or a duality. You know very well that the Trinity is moving SDAs and others to Rome. We know that Ellen White spoke about a TRio as you have stated. Ellen White also stated that truth is progressive and she also stated that God will have a people that will sustain the Bible and the Bible only as their rule of authority and faith.

She also stated not to quote her, to get it from the Bible.

Eugene Shubert quote:

Ellen G. White wrote:
The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-- Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905)

errorblaster

Yeah! but there is only one throne in Revelation 22, God and the Lamb. Why is the Bible reverting back to this original duality?

Of course the New Testament presents the Holy Spirit as a separte being apart from Christ but keep in mind that when dealing with the word another as in comforter=Allos it means of the same category but distinct. The word heteros is not being employed which is a totally different individual. Also when the Shema of Israel is being used in Deuteronomy

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD, the word for one is Echad which is a compound word. The first day of Creation EVening and Morning was one day and the man joined to the woman employes the word Echad, both becoming one.

These are the two examples of the Echad. How do you explain the duality of Isaiah 44:6 and John 1:1 and the throne of the God and the Lamb after the plan of redemption is finished? It is surely a mystery but we have to be careful not falling into erroneous concepts. You cannot deny that Ellen White stated that the Holy Spirit is Jesus himself. You are going to have to deal with that original duality stated in Isaiah 44:6 and John 1:1. That is only if you are interested in progressive truth. If you are not then you will rest comfortably in what everyone assumes to be the truth. But as I previously stated, that throne of God and the lamb in Revelation 22 presents a theological basis for a duality which was originally presented in Isaiah 44:6 and John 1:1.

The question is, did the incarnation impact the Godhead causing a Trio? Based on the word Allos then the Holy Spirit is an Alter Ego of Jesus Christ because the word heteros is not being used which means a totally different individual.

In regards to Luke 21:24 I don't think that you are a greater authority on the matter than Professor Jean Zurcher from Switzerland. In 1980 when Luke 21:24 was fulfilled there was an accompaniment study with the quarterlies. Dr. Zurchers book Christ of the Revelation was used.

Here is a quote from the Adventist Laymen's Foundatin Website

p 5 -- Deception by Omission -- In the last Sabbath School lesson for the adults in 1989, a question was asked: "Is the return of the Jews to Palestine in this century, followed by the establishment of' the modern state of Israel the fulfil,lment of' prophecy?" (p. 93) The answer is given from the SDA Bible Commentary , Vol..4, p. 33. It reads: "Any idea that the return of the Jews to their ancestral home, that is, to the new state of Israel, may in any way be related to Bible prophecy is without valid Scriptural foundation." (1976 edition)

The original edition in 1955, read: Any idea that the return of the Jews to their ancestral home, that is, to the new state of Israel, may in any way be related to Bible prophecy (is the product of wishful thinking on the part of misguided, even if sincere, religious enthusiasts, and) is without valid Scriptural foundation. (Part in parenthesis was omitted in the Sabbath School lesson quarterly. See p. 94)

The question asked can be answered quickly and positively - "No" - for the reason as is given in the SDA Bible Commentary. However, this is not the whole picture, and thus not the whole answer.

There is no question that "since the death of the Son of God on Calvary, there is no salvation, nor eternal homeland, except for those who believe in Him and accept His sacrifice." (Our Firm Foundation, Vol. 2, p. 230) While the restoration of the Jews to the land of Palestine in 1948 did not fulfill any prophecy, events in the history of Jerusalem as a city have. But these fulfillments are not because it is still the chosen city where God once placed His presence, but as a sign to Christians who have eyes to see. Why? Jesus so stated in His eschatological discourse on the Mount of Olives. Events in the history of that city wereto tell His people, something. He said - "When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judea flee ... and let them which are in the midst of it depart out." (Luke 21:20-21) Keep in mind that this city in A.D. 66, when the Roman armies did compass it, was then no longer the city of God, nor ever would be again, yet an event in its history was given as a sign for which His people were to watch, for it would signal to them coming disaster. They were to flee from it.

Dr. Jean Zurcher, author of the adult Sabbath School lessons for the 2nd Quarter, 1980, wrote in his lesson helps book that Jerusalem is both the beginning and the culmination of Jesus' prophecy ... Having predicted the destruction of Jerusalem and the dispersion of the Jews 'into all nations,' Jesus declared, 'Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled ' (Luke 21:24). (Christ of the Revelation, p. 71, emphasis his)

While the state of. Israel itself is not a fulfillment of any prophecy, to leave the question and answer hanging in space is to rob the student of the Sabbath School lesson of its significance. When in 1948, Israel did become a State, coming events were casting their shadows before.

The church was not left without a witness to this fact, after the historic event occurred in 1948. At a world-wide Bible Conference held in the Sligo Park Church in 1952, Elder Arthur S. Maxwell presented a paper on "The Imminence: of Christ's Second Coming." After noting that the establishment of the new state of Israel was not a fulfillment of prophecy, . he said, "However, there is one .prophecy concerning Palestine that we should all be watching with special care. Said Jesus, 'Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of. the Gentiles be fulfilled.' Luke 21:24." He pointed out that while "the forces of Israel" were victorious "in every other part of Palestine,:they failed to take the most dazzling objective of, all" - the old city of Jerusalem. "Mysteriously," he said, "they were held back from achieving this most cherished goal, this culminating triumph, as by an unseen hand." Then Maxwell asked - "What could be the reason?" and answers, "Only that, the times of the Gentiles are not yet fulfilled." (Our Firm Foundation, op. cit.)

We are not living in 1948, nor 1952, but in 1990. Jerusalem is no longer trodden down of the nations, but.has been declared by the action of the Knesset, to be "united in its entirety," the "capital of Israel" and "the seat of the President of the State, the Knesset, the Government and the Supreme Court." We can no longer put the fulfillment of Luke 21:24 into the future, and thus avoid confronting the meaning and significance of its fulfillment. We are in the "NOW" time when Jesus' own prophecy has been fulfilled. To lead the Sabbath. School into a complacency in regard to the fu1lment of this prophecy is treasonable in the sight of Heaven, and a continued betrayal of light
which God through "messengers has been giving this generation of the Church, starting with the 1952 Bible Conference. For additional documentation, see The Times of the Gentiles Fulfilled. Order Form

Errorblaster

Now check and see what Ellen White stated would take place After the truth has been preached as a witness to all nations.

According to Ellen White apostasy comes to the SDA corporate structure after the truth has been preached as a witness to all nations this is now. This can be proven quite easily.

In her article Let the Trumpet Give a Certain Sound Review and Herald 1892 She clearly reveals the following information. There are a couple of items in regard to apostasy which I will number

After the truth has been preached as a Witness to all nations

1) Many voices arise confusing many people

fulfillment, the vast array of independent groups that arose in the Laodicean exodus that took place from 1980 onward. Also the devil has been appearing to small pockets of individuals worldwide since 1982 see shareintl.org

Check the article on the Maitreya's materialization in Kenya, Africa in 1980 shareintl.org

2) An attempt to tear down the landmarks and the pillars of our faith, this already has taken place.

a certain individual in high places actually stated the following "The Sanctuary doctrine is no longer an asset but a liability." The main pillar doctrine which was entrusted to the SDA Church was and is the Sanctuary doctrine. When Desmond Ford was interviewed by Ministry magazine in 1980 he stated in the interview "the leadership is coming around to my way of thinking but Adventists who don't read won't pick it up." Desmond Ford was referring to the 1980 statement and the heretical statement inserted in regards to the Sanctuary doctrine, that Jesus provided a perfect atonement. We are well aware that Jesus provided a perfect sacrifice but that sacrifice in 31AD was not the final atonement. The final atonement as you are aware of began in 1844. Desmond Ford was aware of the influence of the book Questions on doctrine on the 1980 statement.

3) Then comes the oppressive law establishing Sunday as the day of worship. Note that this will not be a mere Sunday closing law. It will be a law requiring your attendence on Sunday by force. The Conference will open up on Sundays and take the mark of the beast.

4) The final item that occurs after the truth has been preached as a witness to all nations is the Loud Cry of the Third angel.

For all the independents out there and the so called reform movements that believe that they will finish the witness to all nations by way of the loud cry, this article will be a rude awakening for them. They believe that the SDA Conference is in apostasy and rightly so. The independents must then recognize that the truth has been preached if they are to believe the cronological sequence of what sister white states in this article. Apostasy comes to the conference only after the truth has been preached.

The other alternative for the independents is if the SDA conference is not in apostasy then all the independent groups should return to the conference because what all the independents are perceiving as apostasy would in reality be the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Conference Church. This means that they should return and submit to the conference leadership. Since independents cannot perceive that the apostasy of the mainline church is a sign that truth has been preached, they as well as the conference have become voices of confusion which cannot perceive the truth and claim that they will finish the work of preaching the loud cry.

Now here is the article and you will see the sequence

Let the Trumpet Give a Certain Sound Review and Herald December 1892

After the truth has been proclaimed as a witness to all nations every conceivable powere of evil will be set in operation and minds will be confused by many voices crying "Lo here is Christ, Lo he is there.

This is the truth, I have the message from God, he has sent me with great light." Then there will be a removal of the landmarks and an attempt to tear down the pillars of our faith.

A more decided effort will be made to exalt the false Sabbath, and to cast contempt upon God himself by supplanting the day he has blessed and sanctified. This false Sabbath is to be enforced by an oppressive law.

Satan and his angels are wide awake and intensely active working with energy and perseverance through human instrumentalities to bring about his purposeof obliterating from the minds of men the knowledge of God.

But while satan works with his lying wonders, the time will be fulfilled foretold in the revelation and the mighty angel which shall lighten the earth with his glory will proclaim the fall of babylon and call upon God's people to forsake her.

Conclusion

So Dear Eugene I know that you know that the SDA mainline is in Apostasy. According to the witness above you must now realize that truth has been preached. And if you do not recognize that there is apostasy then you should return to the Conference and submit to the governing authorities. One final thought, you will notice that the loud cry comes after the truth has been preached as a witness to all nations. This is contrary to the belief system of most SDAs who believe that the loud cry finishes the work on planet earth. The reason for this is that since 1980 the mainline no longer promotes the 3 angels messages, the 144,000 will have to repeat the 2nd and 3rd angels messages.