A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:45 am Post subject: "Man of Sin"
The power of Papal Rome and their Jesuits is a pagan corruption of the true church, they have used evil to force true believers to repent their "heresy", persecuted or killed those who followed the bible (WALDENSEES, HUGOUNOTS, churches of the reformers) and the worse sin of all declared the Pope as infallible and having powers only reserved for Christ or God.
Martin Luther (1483-1546) (Lutheran)
"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist."
(Aug. 18, 1520) Taken from The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 2., pg. 121 by Froom.
(In response to a papal bull [official decree]): "I despise and attack it, as impious, false... It is Christ Himself who is condemned therein... I rejoice in having to bear such ills for the best of causes. Already I feel greater liberty in my heart; for at last I know that the pope is antichrist, and that his throne is that of Satan himself." --D'Aubignι, b.6, ch. 9.
John Calvin (1509-1564) (Presbyterian)
"Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt... I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy."
Taken from Institutes by John Calvin.
"The oracles of God foretold the rising of an Antichrist in the Christian Church: and in the Pope of Rome, all the characteristics of that Antichrist are so marvelously answered that if any who read the Scriptures do not see it, there is a marvelous blindness upon them."
Taken from The Fall of Babylon by Cotton Mather in Froom's book, The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 3, pg. 113.
John Knox (1505-1572) (Scotch Presbyterian)
Knox wrote to abolish "that tyranny which the pope himself has for so many ages exercised over the church" and that the pope should be recognized as "the very antichrist, and son of perdition, of whom Paul speaks."
Taken from The Zurich Letters, pg. 199 by John Knox.
Thomas Cranmer (1489-1556) (Anglican)
"Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Referring to prophecies in Revelation and Daniel.)
Taken from Works by Cranmer, Vol. 1, pp. 6-7.
John Wesley (1703-1791) (Methodist)
Speaking of the Papacy he said, "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers... He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped...claiming the highest power, and highest honour...claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone."
Taken from Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms by John Wesley, pg. 110.
Roger Williams (1603-1683) (First Baptist Pastor in America)
He spoke of the Pope as "the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vassals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself...speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to change times and laws; but he is the son of perdition (II Thess. 2)."
Taken from The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers by Froom, Vol. 3, pg. 52.
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Not too long ago, great men of God believed the pope was an Anti-Christ.Ή They were Wycliffe, Luther, Calvin, Tyndale, Knox, Sir Isaac Newton, Fox, Wesley, Finney, Moody, Spurgeon. Could they be right? Lets see what Pope Boniface VIII said about himself:
"The Roman Pontiff judges all men, but is judged by no one.
"We declare, assert, define and pronounce: To be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every human creature altogether necessary for salvation...
"That which was spoken of Christ...'Thou hast subdued all things under His feet,' may well seem verified in me. I have the authority of the King of kings. I am all in all and above all, so that God, Himself and I, the Vicar of God, have but one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do. What therefore, can you make of me but God?"²
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
--II Thessalonians Chapter 2.
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There is a counterfeit Christian so polished, so highly respectable that the world is blinded about who she really is. Only the Word of God can tell the difference between the true and false, and the Bible calls the Church or Rome the Great Whore in the Book of Revelation. The Pope is an Anti-Christ, and his bride is the Church of the Vatican.
GOD'S CRY TO THEM IS: "COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE."
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
--Revelation 18
The Roman Catholics have been betrayed by a slick presentation of Baal (Sun) worship dressed up to look like Christianity. Their popes are only men. Their priests and nuns are only people, giving them a false gospel, a false Christ and another spirit. May God help them to have the strength to come out of her.
See Gal. 1:8, 9; II Cor. 11:1-4.
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The faithful martyrs, stood against this system at the peril of their lives. In history this time period is known as the Dark Ages, the Protestant Reformation and Spanish Inquisition. Many Christians suffered at this time. Those who chose to remain pure and accepted no authority other than the Holy Scriptures were labeled as "heretics" and were stuffed into dungeons, burnt at the stake, thrown to the lions and beheaded by guillotines. History books, encyclopedias and church books tell the story and none need be ignorant of the power behind the slaying of the Christians. The time period of Pergamos was that phase of Christianity leading to the formation of the Papacy and the assertion of authority by the Pope.
Paul, in 2 Thess. 2, describes him as "that man of sin."
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed... Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." (2 Thess. 2: 3-4.)
Daniel pictures the same power as a little horn or king in Daniel chapters 7 and 8.
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"We should remember that Satan does not appear as a monster with horns, a long tail, and a pitchfork. Instead, he appears as an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:14). As Jesus warned about "wolves in sheep's clothing" (Matt. 7:15), so in numerous instances the paganism that was disguised in the outer garments of Christianity became a mixture that has deceived millions. It was like removing the warning label from a bottle of poison and substituting a peppermint candy label in its place. The contents are deadly just the same. No matter how much we may dress it up on the outside, paganism is deadly. True worship must be "in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24)--not pagan error."
--Babylon Mystery Religion by Ralph Woodrow.
Many have a wrong conception of the Antichrist and what it means. Perhaps the next statement will help in this matter:
"Antichrist, Vicar of Christ: The apostle John,...speaking of the apostasy, the coming of which he predicts, styles it the "Antichrist." And we have also said that the Papacy, speaking through its representative and head, calls itself the "Vicar of Christ." The first, "antichrist," is a Greek word; the second, "vicar," is an English word; but the two are in reality one, for both words have the same meaning. Antichrist translated into English is vice-Christ, or vicar of Christ; and vicar of Christ, rendered into Greek, is Antichrist--Antichristos. If we can establish this--and the ordinary use of the word by those to whom the Greek was a vernacular, is decisive on the point--we shall have no difficulty in showing that this is the meaning of the word "Antichrist," even a vice-Christ. And if so, then every time the Pope claims to be the vicar of Christ, he pleads at the bar of the world that he is the Antichrist."
--The Papacy Is the Antichrist, Rev. J.A. Wylie, p. 2. (Author of The History of Protestantism.)
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Blasphemous titles claimed for the pope have been embellished and enlarged over the centuries. But a few of these boastful claims appear in an ecclesiastical (Roman Catholic) dictionary, by Lucius Ferraris, entitled Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Vol. VI, pgs. 438, 442, article "Pope." The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1913 edition, Vol. VI, p. 48, speaks of this book as "a veritable encyclopedia of religious knowledge," and "a precious mine of information."
"The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God."
"The Pope is of such lofty and supreme dignity that, properly speaking, he has not been established in any rank of dignity, but rather has been placed upon the very summit of all ranks of dignities..."
"He is likewise the divine monarch and supreme emperor and king of kings."
"Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions."
"So that if it were possible that the angels might err in the faith, or might think contrary to the faith, they could be judged and excommunicated by the pope."
"The pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief king of kings, having plenitude of power, to whom has been entrusted by the omnipotent God direction not only of the earthly but also of the heavenly kingdom."
"The pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man but of God."
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"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."
--Pope Leo XIII, in an Encyclical Letter, June 20, 1894.
"For thou art another God on earth."
--History of the Councils, Vol. XIV, p. 109.
"We define that the Holy Apostolic See (the Vatican) and the Roman Pontiff hold the primacy over the whole world."
--A Decree of the Council of Trent, quoted in Philippe Labbe and Gabriel Cossart, The Most Holy Councils, Vol. 13, col. 1167.
"Take thou the tiara adorned with the triple crown, and know that thou art the Father of princes and of kings, and art the Governor of the world."
--Coronation Service of the Pontiffs.
"The Pope is the Supreme Judge... He is the vicegerent of Christ, who is not only a priest forever, but also King of kings and Lord of lords."
--Vatican Council, p. 220.
"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under veil of flesh."
--The Catholic National, July, 1895.
During the Vatican Council of 1870, on January 9, it was proclaimed: "The Pope is Christ in office, Christ in jurisdiction and power...we bow down before thy voice, O Pius, as before the voice of Christ, the God of truth; in clinging to thee, we cling to Christ." [Emphasis Supplied.]
"All dogmatic decrees of the Pope, made with or without his general council, are infallible... Once made, no pope or council can reverse them.... This is the Catholic principle, that the Church cannot err in faith."
--The Catholic World, June, 1871, pages 422, 423.
"We have no right to ask reasons of the church, any more than of Almighty God, as a preliminary to our submission. We are to take with unquestioning docility, whatever instruction the church gives us."
--The Catholic World, August, 1871, page 589.
"If a man refuse to hear the (Roman Catholic) Church, let him be considered--so the Lord commands--as a heathen and a publican."
--Pope Pius XII, in his encyclical letter, The Mystical Body of Christ, June 29, 1943.
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We will just mention a doctrine widespread among Christianity today. We speak here of the "secret rapture" or "rapture" theory. According to their theory the Lord is to come secretly for His saints: they are to be caught up (raptured) to meet Him in the air without the world knowing that anything is happening; then an individual known as the "Antichrist" is to make his appearance, this is a false dotrine which has come into being as if they were actually taught in the Bible, and even some good men have got the impression that the Bible does actually contain them.
It may come as a shock to many good people to learn that this teaching was originated by the Bible's Jesuit enemies! The Jesuit priest, Ribera, was responsible for this and it was Rome's most effective weapon to break the influence that the Protestant Reformers were having. It was published with the design to shift the odium of being the Antichrist away from the Pope and imply that the Reformers' view of the Papacy as the Antichrist was wrong.
The following observations come from prominent Protestant writers and theologians:
"Jesuit Ribera tried to set aside the application of these prophecies to the papal power by bringing out the futurist system, which asserts that these prophecies refer properly, not to the papacy, but to that of some future supernatural individual, who is yet to appear, and to continue in power for 3½ years.
"Those who advocate the futurist system, Protestants as they are for the most part, are thus playing into the hands of Rome and helping to screen the Papacy from detection as the anti-Christ. It has been well said that 'Futurism tends to obliterate the brand put by the Holy Spirit upon Popery.' " --Daniel and Revelation, Rev. Joseph Tanner, B.A., p. 16, 17.
Most Christian groups fail to connect "the man of sin" and the "anti-Christ" to the power of the "little horn" in Daniel. Read Rome's own words on this:
"Antichrist--The Little Horn: After studying the picture of anti-Christ in St. Paul's Epistle to the Thessalonians, one easily recognises the "man of sin" in Daniel 7:8, 11, 20, 21 where the prophet (Daniel) describes the little horn." --The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 1, p. 560.
The Reformers embodied their interpretation of prophecy in their confessions of faith. All the Reformers were unanimous in the matter...and their interpretation of those prophecies determined their reforming action. With one mind and mouth all these Protestants agreed in the substances of their protests. To them Rome was Babylon, and its proud head anti-Christ.
The following quotations come from the book, Lessons from The Reformation:
Matthias wrote: "It is one of the cunning tricks of the arch-enemy to persuade men that Antichrist is still to come; when, in truth, he is now present and so has been for a long time. But men are less on their guard against him when they look for him as yet to come.
.
"Just as it happened with those Jews who called Christ a deceiver; thus too the actual Antichrist will dream of another Antichrist to come."
Luther said: "I know that the Pope is Antichrist, and that his see is that of Satan himself.
Luther's sledge-hammer blows are but the result of his mighty assurance from the study of the Scriptures that "the reign of Antichrist, predicted and described in the Bible, is the papacy."
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For a rebuttal of the secret rapture doctrine read, Tearing The Shroud From The Antichrist by Henry Feyerabend. Contact It Is Written, Box 2010, Oshawa, Ontario, L1H 7V4, Canada. Or Box 0, Thousand Oaks, CA 91360, U.S.A.
God's Estimate of the Papal Power--
By their treatment of His Word the popes have exalted themselves above the God of heaven. This is the reason that in prophecy the papal power is specified as the "man of sin"...
Although those standing at the head of the Papacy claim to have great love for God, He looks upon them as haters of Him. They have turned the truth of God into a lie. Tampering with God's commandments and placing in their stead human traditions, is the work of Satan, and will divorce the religious world from God.
Representative of Satan--
There is one pointed out in prophecy as the man of sin. He is the representative of Satan... This man of sin comes in and represents to the world that he has changed that law (of God), and that the first day of the week instead of the seventh is now the Sabbath. By so doing, he exalts himself above God... And the Christian world has sanctioned his efforts by adopting this child of the Papacy--the Sunday institution. They have nourished it, and will continue to nourish it, until Protestantism shall give the hand of fellowship to the Roman power.
--Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Comments on 2 Thess. Chapter 2, Vol. 7, p. 910.
Prophecy represents Protestantism as having lamblike horns, but speaking like a dragon. Already we are beginning to hear the voice of the dragon. There is a satanic force propelling the movement, but it is concealed. Even the men who are engaged in the work, are themselves blinded to the results which will follow their movement.
The Word of God plainly declares that His law is to be scorned, trampled upon, by the world; there will be an extraordinary prevalence of iniquity. The professed Protestant world will form a confederacy with the man of sin, and the church and the world will be in corrupt harmony.
I just found this sight today because I was studying Daniel 8:8-10 and I did a general search on Yahoo and it brought this Web site up. I am glad it did! I have found some very interesting post on various topics including Daniel 8, I have not been able to read through them all yet. I did however, want to ask a question on a statement Reddogs made in his last post here. The statement is as follows:
"The power of Papal Rome and their Jesuits is a pagan corruption of the true church"
I don't want to mis-interpret your comment Reddogs and please correct me if I have, but I recall my sister making a similar comment about the Catholic Church starting out to be the "True Church" gone bad. It did not sound right to me. I was wondering if you have any quotes from Sis White or other Spirit of Prophecy authors that state this to be a fact?
I personally believe that the Catholic Church came up out of the roots of a movement called "Simony" led by a Simon Magus who was rebuked by Peter when he tried to buy the Holy Ghost (Acts 8:9-22). Historians refer to him as Simon Magus or Simon the Magician. Catholic History supports this man and don't deny his involvement with corrupting the minds of many.
My problem is that the Catholic Church is so stuck on their "origins" and the false doctrine of the "primacy of Peter" it really bothers me to give them any type of credit when it is not due. I believe Gods "True Church" remained true and separate from the insidious foundings of the church "catholic". I hope to hear the members thoughts on this.
Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: The Great Apostasy
JesusPeace wrote:
I recall my sister making a similar comment about the Catholic Church starting out to be the "True Church" gone bad. It did not sound right to me. I was wondering if you have any quotes from Sis White or other Spirit of Prophecy authors that state this to be a fact?
Ellen White wrote plenty on the great apostasy of the fourth century. In a nutshell what happened is that the pagan Roman Emperor Constantine saw some sort of visionary sign in the sky telling him he would win an upcoming battle through the sign of the Christian cross. He had his men paint the cross on their shields and, sure enough, they won the battle. Constantine converts to Christianity without any genuine experience in faith or repentance. Up until this time Christians were being persecuted. With the supposed conversion of Constantine himself, Christianity became a legal religion. It quickly developed into the only State approved religion of the Empire.
The point of abrupt change from Revelation chapter 12 to the rising up of the sea beast in chapter 13 is the time of this transition. I'll summarize the development for you in terms of the following excerpts from the writings of Ellen G. White:
In vain were Satan's efforts to destroy the church of Christ by violence. The great controversy in which the disciples of Jesus yielded up their lives did not cease when these faithful standard-bearers fell at their post. By defeat they conquered. God's workmen were slain, but His work went steadily forward. The gospel continued to spread and the number of its adherents to increase. It penetrated into regions that were inaccessible even to the eagles of Rome. Said a Christian, expostulating with the heathen rulers who were urging forward the persecution: You may "kill us, torture us, condemn us. . . . Your injustice is the proof that we are innocent. . . . Nor does your cruelty . . . avail you." It was but a stronger invitation to bring others to their persuasion. "The oftener we are mown down by you, the more in number we grow; the blood of Christians is seed."--Tertullian, Apology, paragraph 50.
Thousands were imprisoned and slain, but others sprang up to fill their places. And those who were martyred for their faith were secured to Christ and accounted of Him as conquerors. They had fought the good fight, and they were to receive the crown of glory when Christ should come. The sufferings which they endured brought Christians nearer to one another and to their Redeemer. Their living example and dying testimony were a constant witness for the truth; and where least expected, the subjects of Satan were leaving his service and enlisting under the banner of Christ.
Satan therefore laid his plans to war more successfully against the government of God by planting his banner in the Christian church. If the followers of Christ could be deceived and led to displease God, then their strength, fortitude, and firmness would fail, and they would fall an easy prey.
The great adversary now endeavored to gain by artifice what he had failed to secure by force. Persecution ceased, and in its stead were substituted the dangerous allurements of temporal prosperity and worldly honor. Idolaters were led to receive a part of the Christian faith, while they rejected other essential truths. They professed to accept Jesus as the Son of God and to believe in His death and resurrection, but they had no conviction of sin and felt no need of repentance or of a change of heart. With some concessions on their part they proposed that Christians should make concessions, that all might unite on the platform of belief in Christ.
Now the church was in fearful peril. Prison, torture, fire, and sword were blessings in comparison with this. Some of the Christians stood firm, declaring that they could make no compromise. Others were in favor of yielding or modifying some features of their faith and uniting with those who had accepted a part of Christianity, urging that this might be the means of their full conversion. That was a time of deep anguish to the faithful followers of Christ. Under a cloak of pretended Christianity, Satan was insinuating himself into the church, to corrupt their faith and turn their minds from the word of truth.
Most of the Christians at last consented to lower their standard, and a union was formed between Christianity and paganism.
Almost imperceptibly the customs of heathenism found their way into the Christian church. The spirit of compromise and conformity was restrained for a time by the fierce persecutions which the church endured under paganism. But as persecution ceased, and Christianity entered the courts and palaces of kings, she laid aside the humble simplicity of Christ and His apostles for the pomp and pride of pagan priests and rulers; and in place of the requirements of God, she substituted human theories and traditions. The nominal conversion of Constantine, in the early part of the fourth century, caused great rejoicing; and the world, cloaked with a form of righteousness, walked into the church. Now the work of corruption rapidly progressed. Paganism, while appearing to be vanquished, became the conqueror. Her spirit controlled the church. Her doctrines, ceremonies, and superstitions were incorporated into the faith and worship of the professed followers of Christ. Excerpted from The Great Controversy, Chapters 2 and 3.
To see this development unfold in a brief historical summary, an excellent timeline is presented in The Prophetic Structure of Revelation 2 and 3, which is the second half of that thread. There you will see the Christian church transitioning from the prophetic period represented by Smyrna to Pergamos and Pergamos to Thyatira. To read a parallel account of this movement of the church from these interesting historical eras into the next in terms of an Ellen G. White vision, see Early Writings, pp. 210-212.
Thank you for the great information. I love Early Writings. She really goes deep in her prophecies in that book. I gather that up until Constantine the True Worshippers were doing the will of God even though the enemy was working right along side doing his underhanded work of distorting scripture and Gods Truth.
I also believe that the so-called bishops of Rome were really pagan roman senators that wanted to jump on the "Christian movement" and maintain control and all the while continuing to practice pagan idol worship.
God has always had His Faithful few. Always. That is encouraging to know, in spite of the infiltrators that lurked..especially Constantine!
Well, I do see the picture clear now after reading the references you provided Mr. Shubert. Thank you very much. I praise God that this site can provide the Spirit of Prophecy to more of us. For the SOP is the Testimony of Jesus Christ Rev 19:10
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: The Supreme Pontiff, 376 A.D.
JesusPeace wrote:
I gather that up until Constantine the True Worshippers were doing the will of God even though the enemy was working right along side doing his underhanded work of distorting scripture and God's Truth.
Very well said, J. Peace.
JesusPeace wrote:
I also believe that the so-called bishops of Rome were really pagan roman senators that wanted to jump on the "Christian movement" and maintain control and all the while continuing to practice pagan idol worship.
From what I know of human nature, that is a very reasonable supposition. One small piece of evidence that favors your basic intuition is the historical fact that the papal title Pontifex Maximus came from paganism. The Pontifex Maximus was the highest religious figure in the Ancient Roman College of Pontiffs: "In ancient Rome, the College of Pontiffs or Collegium Pontificum was a body whose members were the highest-ranking priests of the polytheistic state religion. At its head was the Pontifex Maximus." Real Christians didn't adopt the technical terms of Roman paganism but used a Christian vocabulary instead, which favored neologisms and Greek words.
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