A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
So many people believe in the SDA message, but not Ellen G. White.
Believe IN the SDA message? Believe IN Ellen White?
What ever happened to believing IN Jesus Christ?
It seems that we don't talk about Jesus enough in this church. Why is that?
Is He really at the center of our thoughts, or is He merely sitting on the sidelines of our mind patiently waiting for us to invite Him to take His rightful position within our lives?
How do you separate Jesus from the testimony of Jesus? What kind of a Jesus do you aim to create when you do that and why do you even try? Do you love the testimony of Jesus? Jesus said through the Apostle Paul, “Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances, but examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21). That's what this thread is about.
How do you separate Jesus from the testimony of Jesus? What kind of a Jesus do you aim to create when you do that and why do you even try? Do you love the testimony of Jesus? Jesus said through the Apostle Paul, “Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances, but examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21). That's what this thread is about.
You are missing the point entirely. My point is that we ought to place the emphasis on being in Christ.
Now then, the SDA church isn't Jesus, but an entity which represents Jesus. Moreover, Ellen White was not Jesus, but one who represented Jesus.
I do not believe IN the SDA church, nor do I believe IN Ellen White; rather, I believe IN Jesus Christ, and test those who claim to represent Him by the Holy Scriptures, to see if they are rightly doing so. If I find that they are correctly representing the teachings of Jesus Christ, then I believe what they say, yet, I don't believe IN them (the representative entities).
You are making the fatal mistake of placing the SDA church, as well as Ellen White, on a level of equality with Jesus by contending with me for stating that we ought not believe IN these things as we believe IN Jesus Christ.
You see, when you suggest that we ought to believe in these things within the context of believing IN Jesus Christ you are in essence placing them on a level of equality with Christ, and thus declaring them to be flawless/infallible, as is Jesus Christ.
Now then, if you are willing, I would like to test your knowledge of the prophetic. Since you are making the claim that we ought to believe IN the SDA church and IN Ellen White as we believe in Jesus Christ, thus placing them on a level of equality with Him, then the SDA teachings must be infallible.
Therefore, since the teaching that Ellen White was a prophet of God is considered to be one of the pillars of this church, we ought to put her to the test to see if the teachings which she claimed to be inspired by God are in harmony with the Holy Scriptures 100%.
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:39 pm Post subject: Voice, Your interruption is uncalled for
Voice,
On this forum it's wrong to make a brother an offender for a single word.
Men often commit wrong through ignorance or want of judgment. In many instances there is no premeditated wrong; it is caused through a lack of thoughtfulness. The one who treats this as sin is himself a sinner. There is with many a keen imagination that makes them offender for a word or action. But often the one judged is innocent in the sight of God. The accuser, who has permitted the tempter to ruffle his feelings, needs to humble his soul before God, to be purified and refined by the Holy Spirit, to love as brethren, be kind, be courteous. The promise to all is, “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and He will draw nigh to you.” (James 4:7). If one errs, remember that this is no more than you yourself have done. Put away evil surmisings. Christ says, “All ye are brethren” (Matt. 23:8). —11MR 371.
We must bear with one another, remembering our failings. With some have compassion, making a difference; others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire. All cannot bear the same rigid discipline. All cannot be brought up to just another’s ideas of duty. Allowance must be made for different temperaments and different minds. God knows how to deal with us. But my heart has been sick as I have seen brother deal with brother and the disposition to catch another in his words and to make a man an offender for a word. . . . —2MCP 632.
The soil of the hearts of the Pharisees is a hopeless and profitless soil, where the seeds of heavenly truth cannot take root. Oh, how self-deluding is this feeling of superiority that all Pharisees cherish! They suppose that others are at fault, and speak words of reproof and condemnation, and their words are strong and hard as nether millstones, and crush all hope and courage out of the soul. The goodness of heart manifested in the works of true Christians, puts into the heart of Pharisees roots of bitterness whereby many are defiled. They are full of evil thoughts, and suspect the purest. They make a man an offender for a word. Exalted self claims all their faith, honor, and love. —ST, December 17, 1894.
Making a man an offender for a word is a grievous sin in the sight of God. —20MR 360.
Many of you are self-willed, proud, hardhearted, and condemnatory, when on the contrary the whole heart should be aroused to devise ways and means for saving souls. You draw apart from your brethren because they do not speak and act to please you, when in the sight of God you are more guilty than they. You do not seek that unity that Christ prayed might exist among brethren. What impression do these variances, this emulation and strife, make upon your families and your neighbors, upon those who do not believe the truth? “By this shall all men know that ye are My disciples, if ye have love one to another.” How many of you are unsanctified in heart, and while sensitive yourselves to any reproof, you make another an offender for a word? How many of you speak words that cannot produce union, but only heartache and discouragement? How many give cause for anger, and are themselves angry without cause? —Manuscript Releases Volume Fifteen, pp. 192-193.
A hard, unjust, critical spirit has been indulged among those who have held positions of trust in the work of God. Unless those who have indulged this spirit are converted, they will be relieved of the responsibility of acting a part in committees of counsel, even in the transaction of business. Unless they are converted, their voices must not be heard in the council, for the aggregate result is more injurious than beneficial. Wrong prevails, man is made an offender for a word, and suspicion, distrust, jealousy, evil-surmising, evilspeaking, and injustice reproduce themselves even in connection with the cause of God. A false zeal passes for jealousy for the cause of God; but the miserable, filthy garment of self must be destroyed, and in its place men must accept the righteousness of Christ. The persecution that is carried on among church members is a most terrible thing. It is true that some have committed errors and made mistakes, but it is equally true that these errors and mistakes are not nearly as grievous in the sight of God as is the harsh and unforgiving spirit of those who are criticizers and censors. Many of those who are free to pass judgment on others are committing errors which, although not made manifest, are tainted with deadly evil that is corrupting their spiritual life. —TM 185-186.
Another grievous sin existing in our midst, is self-sufficiency,—Pharisaism,—feeling that we are righteous, and all our acts are meritorious, when we are far from cherishing the right spirit toward God or toward our brethren. It is a spirit of wanting to be first. Self-esteem has been cherished, and you have had a spirit of criticism toward others because you were not first. Envy, jealousy, suspicion, fault-finding, and false witnessing have existed. There are unconsecrated hearts among you, who turn everything said or done, even under the special direction of God, in a wrong way. The power of Satan's temptations is strong upon these, and they view things in a perverted light. They please the enemy by their criticisms, and by making a man an offender for a word. In many of these cases that are criticised there is no actual sin; the suspicion is the result of the condition of the mind that entertains it. If one crosses their path, they have no unity or fellowship with him. They feel disgusted with all he may say or do. Those who have confidence in them share their feelings and sentiments. A spirit of retaliation is secretly at work; yet those who are thus creating disaffection and disunion, and planting the seeds of jealousy, all the while claim to be firm believers in the truth. Such do not practice the spirit of the truth. The leaven of their evil surmisings permeates the company where it exists, and God is dishonored, the principles of truth are degraded, and the Christian experience is marred and dwarfed. —Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, December 18, 1888.
You have condemned me for being obedient to God, and have therefore condemned yourself!
It's a grave sin indeed to ignore the voice of truth, and thus equate the testimony of it to the devil's lies.
My ideas may be thrown into the virtual bottomless pit by men, but in the end those who have chosen to condemn the righteous testimony of the truth will find themselves in the lake of fire.
They can run from the truth all their lives; but one day they will have to face it, and give an account for their rejection of it.
It is not a sin to question what others say, especially when such questions are designed to encourage them to think more closely about what they have said.
It is a sin however, to silence the questioner by usurping authority over him that only belongs to God. The Pharisees did this all the time. Who is really guilty of Pharisaism here, the one who asks the questions, or the one who condemns the questioner?
You can bury yourself beneath a plethora of Ellen White quotes in defense of your actions, but one day you will have to stand before the throne of God and answer for every idle word that you have spoken, and every vain action that you have taken against those whom you have condemned to hell for questioning your authority.
Your action against me will be a thorn in your flesh until you are brought to repentance for what you have done.
You have no right to assume that any of your thoughts belong in the midheaven forums. It's evident that you don't understand the forum rules. Everythingimportant.org is a private ministry. This is a forum for reform-minded Seventh-day Adventists. No law-abiding, self-respecting, Seventh-day Adventist would interrupt an approved thread to talk about a righteous testimony on the truth about the word IN. "How to Test a Prophet" is a valid topic. You are most definitely off-topic.
Thanks for acknowledging that this is only a virtual bottomless pit. You'd be surprised at how many really think that it's the literal abode of the dead.
You have no right to assume that any of your thoughts belong in the midheaven forums.
And you have no right to dictate my thoughts! If you don't like them, then do with them what you will; but don't you dare place yourself on the throne of God and assume the right to condemn my ideas to hell. God has not given you such authority. And what He has given you will soon be taken away if you persist in abusing your position within the church.
The interesting thing is that I didn't even speak in error; yet you condemned my words. Where are you really standing, GKI?
Quote:
It's evident that you don't understand the forum rules. Everythingimportant.org is a private ministry. This is a forum for reform-minded Seventh-day Adventists. No law-abiding, self-respecting, Seventh-day Adventist would interrupt an approved thread to talk about a righteous testimony on the truth about the word IN. "How to Test a Prophet" is a valid topic.
Your forum rules do not usurp authority over the rules that God has given His people to live by. We are instructed to test the spirits. 1Jn. 4:1. And that is what I sought to do. And you condemned me for it. You are violating the word of God to uphold your authority within this forum. Do you think you won't answer to God for this?
Quote:
You are most definitely off-topic.
And you're actions of referring to me as a legalist are not in agreement with the Holy Scriptures.
By the way, I was not off topic. I was merely attempting to demonstrate how one ought to test a prophet. You did not allow that to happen.
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