A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 2 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject: THE DAY OF THE LORD
"Behold, I come as a thief " is in connection with Armageddon. The day of the Lord is to come "as a thief" and bring sudden destruction and fiery judgment. Jesus said the thief cometh not but for to steal and to kill and to destroy. For no other reason. Did He mean for us to apply that statement to the day of the Lord and Armageddon? I have searched and have found no solid proof that Jesus will be visible at this time of judgment.
Rev. 16:15,16; 1 Thess. 5:2-3; 2 Pet. 3:7, 10; John 10:10
Matthew 24: 3, 27, 37, 39 the word coming should be translated as Presence. Meaning not visible. Jesus was talking about a time of judgment One shall be taken is speaking of the evil ones. Their dead bodies will be food for the birds. Luke 17:34-37; Rev. 19:17-21
It looks to me like "that day and hour" is Armageddon and is a SEARCH AND DESTROY MISSION. It is not related to the rapture nor to the visible coming of the Lord . That is another time.
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: Re: THE DAY OF THE LORD
Van wrote:
Matthew 24: 3, 27, 37, 39 the word coming should be translated as Presence. Meaning not visible.
The Greek word translated coming in those verses is parousia and means "appearance and subsequent presence with". In all of Greek literature parousia was only used to mean a visible, tangible presence. There are simply no examples in Greek literature where parousia refers to an unseen presence. In the ancient Greco-Roman world parousia referred to official visits by royalty or to a glorious appearing of a god into our reality. Christians appropriated the word parousia as a specialized term for the glorious appearance and subsequent presence of Jesus, i.e., the Second Coming.
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 2 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject:
Thank you for your comment on the word presence. No doubt you are correct in that this is the common understanding of the word parousia. Since there is no word meaning an invisible presence, we have no way of knowing the correct meaning in this case.
However by comparing Old Testament examples I believe Jesus was speaking of a time when He would not be visible. God told Moses, My presence will go with thee. We know God was not visible. In Ezekiel 38 the "presence" of God will cause a great shaking. Matthew 24:27,28 seems to be pointing to that very scene in Israel when the enemies will be killed and their dead bodies will be food for the birds.-
So I believe the day of the Lord is not the same time as the coming of the Lord in the clouds.
Respectfully,
Van _________________ An old time student of the Word
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:10 pm Post subject: Matthew 24
Van wrote:
Since there is no word meaning an invisible presence, we have no way of knowing the correct meaning in this case.
The correct meaning of what?
Van, if I understand you correctly, you don't believe the Bible. You seem to prefer your own theory above Scripture. You must certainly be aware that the New Testament Bible has come to us from Greek manuscripts and that you are rejecting the known meaning of the Greek word parousia.
Please consider the fact that Christ's Olivet Discourse makes perfect sense as is. Your theory is unnecessary.
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