Hi,

I was certain that I was a Christian before I came to this forum. And then I read this thread on the definition of being a Christian: http://www.bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=61168

Now I'm confused. I believe that Jesus is eternal, uncreated and is the creator of the universe. I believe the Father is God and that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and the Son. I also think of the Father as being greater than the Son. Do I pass your stated and, I think, very confusing definition of being a Christian?

Hi Shubee and welcome to the board!

Maybe this will help.

• There is one God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, Creator of all things seen and unseen.
• There is one savior, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, who was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin.
• God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one, triune God and co-exist from eternity to eternity.
• Jesus Christ suffered death by crucifixion on our behalf at Calvary so that we may be saved.
• After three days, he rose again, ascended into heaven and is seated at the Right hand of God.
• All men are lost and are unable to save themselves.
• Salvation comes only by way of acceptance of Jesus Christ as one’s personal Lord and Savior.
• The name of Jesus Christ is the only name given under heaven whereby men can be saved.
• Salvation is a free gift of the Father and cannot be earned.
• The Holy Spirit came with power at Pentecost. His gifts are bestowed on all believers at the Father's pleasure.
• The fruits of the Spirit are the mark of every Christian.
• Jesus Christ will return to judge the living and the dead.
• When He returns, those who died in Him will be resurrected to life.
• Believers look forward to the resurrection of the body.
• The Bible is the authoritative, inerrant Word of God.

http://bibledatabase.com/belief.html

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Hell....the nightmare you can't wake up from.

Sin is like electricity, it takes the path of least resistance. (the shortest path to ground).

Jesus said He is “The Way”, not “A” way. Jesus said He is “the Truth”, not “A” truth. Jesus said He is “The Life”, not “A” life. No man comes to the Father but by Me. Are we serving a man or are we serving God?

Hi Shubee, let us know when you have seen this.

P.S. Welcome to the board, glad to have you join us!!

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Hi quiet dove,

What am I supposed to see?

dljc,

I don't think that the trinitarian formula is helpful because it's too confusing and circumvents the simple meaning of words and a direct interpretation of Scripture.

Hi Shubee,

Quiet Dove was just wanting to make sure that you knew that your thread had been moved from the Intro forum to the Chat to Moderators forum.

The reason is that here in this forum, only you and the Mod staff can see your posts. Makes it a bit easier to address your concerns, rather than having 30 people trying to give advice.

Let's take one thing at a time if we may, to answer your question as to whether you are a Christian...

First of all, let me ask you: What, (in your opinion) do you understand it takes for one to be saved...to get to Heaven?

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A Bondservant of Jesus Christ



A Minister of God Ministry - Support and understanding for a Christian serving in the military

All salvation is based on the finished work of Christ's atoning sacrifice on the cross. I believe that there is a whole continuum of saving responses to that atonement. I believe that there's a guaranteed safe response that will give a believer an abundant entrance to the heavenly kingdom. I also believe that there will be the feeblest response and that person will be admitted into heaven also.

The Bible teaches that we are judged by works (Matthew 25:31-46). "Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?" (James 2:21). The answer to that question is yes (James 2:24). The Bible also teaches that we are saved by faith. "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness" (Genesis 15:6). Naturally, I believe that genuine faith is the basis of all our actions. My understanding is that the response that gives the greatest praise to God is the surest path to heaven. I believe that God is honored the most when we obey Him and believe in God's grace that was lavished upon us through the atonement accomplished by Jesus.

So let me ask you a question. What is the proper definition of the word God? Trinitarianism seems to insist that the proper definition of the word God is "Father, Son and Holy Spirit." Do you really believe that a Hebrew or Greek lexicon in the first century would have given that definition to the meaning of the word?

Thanks so much for your answer...

So then, the question is not whether you are a Christian or not; but rather whether you can accept the Trinitarian View.

Before we go any farther, I want to say that you are welcome to participate and fellowship with us on the board; however as this is a board that subscribes to the Trinitarian view, no anti-Trinitarian views are allowed to be taught or forwarded in the forums.

We do have some non-Trinitarian folks on the board, and for the most part they have no problems...It's simply a matter of conforming to the rules...

Let me give you what (I believe) is a good definition:

God, in His good pleasure and for His good purpose, has chosen to reveal Himself to mankind in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; each with a different ministry working harmoniously together to complete God's redemptive plan for mankind, yet being of one essence and indivisibly one God.

The Trinity is alluded to all throughout the OT, from Gen 1:1 forward.

In the NT, that which is alluded to is made manifest.

To answer your question (more or less) directly...in the First Apology of Justin Martyr to Antonius Pius (written circa A.D. 155-160) chapter 3; and chapters 39 to 43 mention is repeatedly made of God, The Son, and the Holy Spirit as being (among other things) worshiped and adored.

There are earlier documents from the ante-Nicene Fathers, I just don't have them in front of me.

Now let me ask...what is your understanding of the Holy Spirit? Is the HS an "it"; a force like electricity or the wind?

__________________
A Bondservant of Jesus Christ



A Minister of God Ministry - Support and understanding for a Christian serving in the military

Shubee, I'm about to log out for the evening, and won't be back until after Christmas in all probability.

Here is the link to the board rules.

If you feel that you can conform to them, then you're welcome to post.

Merry Christmas!

__________________
A Bondservant of Jesus Christ



A Minister of God Ministry - Support and understanding for a Christian serving in the military

I assume you mean that I am a Christian and that my faith might be strong enough to get me to heaven but God's approval of me is not the standard for admittance to this forum. I find that very interesting. The standards here are even tougher than God's requirements.

I would say that definition is obviously bad because it circumvents and disapproves of the grammatical-historical hermeneutic. More problematic is the insistence on a thoughtless tradition that can't be questioned. It's a good thing that this thread was removed from public view because I am respectfully questioning your insistence on teaching a confusing contradiction. I can't imagine anything more meaningless than saying that God is "of one essence and indivisibly one God" yet in the same breath dividing God into "three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

Where in the Bible does any word translated into English as God mean three persons?

I have no problem with that because the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit are obviously a heavenly trio. They’re all mentioned together in Matthew 28:19, 3:13-17, 2 Corinthians 13:14, Ephesians 4:4-6, 1 Peter 1:2 and Revelation 1:4,5. However, I see no precedent in Scripture for worshiping the Holy Spirit.

I'm not a Greek or Hebrew scholar but I do believe that I have the discernment to distinguish between truth and error. From my studies of reliable commentaries, I do recall that in the original language of Scripture the Holy Spirit is sometimes literally referred to as It. Nevertheless, I believe that It is a divine Person. One evidence for that is that we can grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30) and lie to It (Acts 5:3-4). Better yet, I believe that the Personhood of the Holy Spirit is best established on 1 Corinthians 2:10-11. "The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

I do not understand 'Specific Rules IV.' It says that Unorthodox teachings or discussing specific doctrines of ANY of these religions will be moved to the "World Religions" Forum. Where is the "World Religions" Forum? I don't see it. What is its URL?

Hi Shubee,

The World Religions forum takes 30days/40 post to gain access, so that is why you cannot see it yet.

mcgyver is away from the board for a couple days for the holidays. But as he said, your account is not on any type restrictions, and you are welcome post on the board.

You seem to agree with the board on the Trinity doctrine so I don't see an issue there, the Trinity is not a debatable doctrine on the board anyway so you will not find any threads on the topic.

You will find much to discuss here and many people with many thoughts, so just jump in somewhere, if any questions come up, no big deal and someone will simply ask you.

This thread can remain here for you and mcgyver if you wish or I can chat with you also. But I think you are fine to just start enjoying the discussion on the board.


QD -

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